Largest UPB Installation?

[AnthonyZ]

AnthonyZ, where you able to find out anything on the noise you were getting? Did you get a generation 2 PIM and did that help?

I got four Gen2 PIM's out of HAI (they were super cool about it). I can't explain why but, yes the PIM has indeed helped on two of the projects. I am revisiting the third proplem project next Thursday. Hopefully they will all be rolling strong. My confidence is raising once again...

 

[CalypsoCowboy]

Thats good information to know.

 

[upstatemike]

OK, I have a problem...

In the past eight weeks, I have installed three UPB gigs with networks over a hundred devices (171, approx. 120 and approx. 130). All three have been absolutely HORRIBLE to program. When initially loading the devices via HAI, followed by UPStart discovery, I have LOTS of missed loads. Often, the HAI will "see" the loads but UPStart won't. Other issues include wierd communication anomalies like loads that fail programming and yet, still respond to command lines. Just wierdness. I am also having to run all over the house plugging my PIM into various receptacles and getting varying results from one receptacle to the next. For example, I can program load "A" from one rcptl. while missing load "B" and vise versa. The first was the biggy and I have worked out all the bugs after MANY, MANY, MANY, MANY wasted hours of bouncing around the house to try different receptacles to load from, etc. Those who read my earlier posts on this install may recall that I mentioned that it took a lot of babying to get it but I didn't make any issue out of it as I believed that it was an anomaly that was tied to just the one install. The second install had a second round of programming this past Thursday and I fought like crazy to get it done. Lot's of use of the F word but I dialed it in. Not cool. On this install, I was smart enough to contact Terry at Web Moutain to get some advice and while he was incredibly patient with me, we were unable to figure out the issue with one of my "virtual" three ways. (sorry I didn't get back to on it Terry, I think it may be a bad switch and I think it will be replaced with a keypad style device) Woke up the next morning and went to program the approx. 130 device install. What a freakin' nightmare, same problems, and lots of 'em, throughout. This one is nowhere near done and is absolutely horrible. All three have phase couplers properly installed. All three were physically installed by different electricians. All three are seperated by as many as eighty miles. Used different PIM's. Different laptops. The one constant has been the use of HAI 35A00-1's. Typically in the past, I have experienced 100% loads, 100% programming and zero service calls. From my first install, they JUST WORKED. My questions are....1. Is it the size of the networks causing problems? How will I ever deal with a 250 device install if such is the case? or 2. Has HAI outsourced manufacturing to a new vendor since licensing Gen2? Is the QC a problem? 3. Am I alone in this or have any of you experienced this frustration? It pi$$es me off because HAI just doesn't offer enough margin on the product for me to waste SOOOOOOOOO many hours dealing with this. I need a lower price point than Vantage (I have meetings set up 'em) option and HAI is starting to reek of Insteon as of late...

Any insight?

I just want to confirm on this thread from last year about very large UPB installs... Moving to GenII PIMs did ultimately solve all the problems right?

 

[drozwood90]

You know, I've always wondered, if it was possible to do a firmware update, I would want to do it across the powerline...although dangerous, and time consuming...but you would be able to push it out to all switches at once.

The other thing I've been curious about, is if it would ever be possible to have two DIFFERENT links sent under the condition of:
"normal" switchplate (single button), setup as a super rocker. BUT instead of doing a snap under double tap and dim on / off under single tap, have it transmit ONE link (dim-on) or Link 2 (snapped on).

My thought, if there are two scenes in a room, at night I would see it useful to turn on only one light (setup the Switch to dim on for the "dim on" link), BUT in other cases, have that same switch turn on the whole room's lights...all without trying to have split switch faces, or a switch with buttons.

I think it would also be helpful from the case of having a HA controller, where the switch can be setup to turn on the same way under either link, however tell the controller something different (i.e. I'm going in the room to turn the light on, or I'm going in the room and want to over ride any automation for that room).

--Dan

 

[MikeB]

I use double-taps in a bunch of areas of my home using Insteon and the ISY. For example:

If I single-tap my primary master bath switch the main light comes on as normal. If I double-tap it on, all my lights come on plus my vent plus my music (Russound). If I double-tap the switch off, everything turns off (including that Russound zone).

In the kids rooms, a double-tap off turns the main lights off but turns the nightlights on.

etc...

 

[zpollock]

The other thing I've been curious about, is if it would ever be possible to have two DIFFERENT links sent under the condition of:
"normal" switchplate (single button), setup as a super rocker. BUT instead of doing a snap under double tap and dim on / off under single tap, have it transmit ONE link (dim-on) or Link 2 (snapped on).

I've pushed the developers at PCS (since they created the protocol) for such a feature for the last two years. Every time I see them at EHExpo and bring it up, everyone acts like it's something they've never heard of before and will consider. I use programming in the Omni to get similar functionality (with a few caveats), but it would be much nicer to have that ability in the switch.

 

[Digger]

The other thing I've been curious about, is if it would ever be possible to have two DIFFERENT links sent under the condition of:
"normal" switchplate (single button), setup as a super rocker. BUT instead of doing a snap under double tap and dim on / off under single tap, have it transmit ONE link (dim-on) or Link 2 (snapped on).

I've pushed the developers at PCS (since they created the protocol) for such a feature for the last two years. Every time I see them at EHExpo and bring it up, everyone acts like it's something they've never heard of before and will consider. I use programming in the Omni to get similar functionality (with a few caveats), but it would be much nicer to have that ability in the switch.

Dont PCS devices respond to single tap, double tap, hold, and release? Or am I misunderstanding what you are trying to do?

 

[zpollock]

Yes, they do, but all of those events must use the same link for a given button on the switch.

For example, the sytem can send "Link 1 On", or "Link 1 Snap", but you can't have a single tap send "Link 1 On" and a double tap send "Link 2 On".

 

[Digger]

Yes, they do, but all of those events must use the same link for a given button on the switch.

For example, the sytem can send "Link 1 On", or "Link 1 Snap", but you can't have a single tap send "Link 1 On" and a double tap send "Link 2 On".

Your right. Sorry I misunderstood. Insteon can do that but it is not the switches it is a controller such as the ISY. Still even with a controller not sure its possible (possibly though if you link everything to the controller). Not my area of expertise.

I so wish UDI would make a version for UPB as I could use it in a few houses. UDI makes great products and have superior support.

 

[zpollock]

I've managed to use a controller to create a pseudo double click event (discussed here), but it would be nice to have the real thing.

 

[drozwood90]

I was trying to avoid having the controller involved, as my system is nearly setup with the controller being just another "thing" on the network. So, if the controller is down for any reason, at least we maintain normal functionality.

The main reason I wanted this just came back to my mind...

We wanted to have the baby's room light turn on to 30% when you tapped, but then 100% when you double tapped...neither with a snap.

Maybe I just need to have the controller more involved...

--Dan

 

[Steve]

IMHO the controller is one of the most reliable parts of the system. Hell, my controller has been more reliable than my switches! I would not hesitate to use the controller to do things you need. Especially for 'nice to have' stuff. The critical thing is to insure lights will at least turn on when needed.

 

[drozwood90]

Steve, True.

My idea was, to have the light dim on to 30%, by default. When it was necessary, have it get overridden by the controller to set it to 100%. I was just trying to continue maintaining the ability to NOT have the controller involved...if I could!

--Dan

 

[kurtmccaslin]

I've managed to use a controller to create a pseudo double click event (discussed here), but it would be nice to have the real thing.

I am new to UPB and have been playing around with it for a few weeks. I found another way to create a double click event. I wanted to turn on the lamps in a room with a single click, and then turn on the ceiling lights on with a double click. We normally use lamps for lighting, because they are softer, but occasionally want more light. This is how I did it.

In Upstart set the top rocker to transmit "activate" to the link controlling the lamps for both the single and double click. Then on the Upstart tab labeled "Rocker Switch" set a single tap at 0% light level for the ceiling lights (they are the controlled load). 100% light level on the ceiling lights for a double tap.

Now for the trick..... I have only been able to get this to work on the SA US 1-40 wall controller. The US 2-40 or the Web Mountain ST-11 wont work. They have different programming and dont even give the tab in Upstart labeled "rocker switch".

As I said I am very new to UPB, and dont really understand the difference between the 1-40 and the 2-40 other than the ability to control the load separately. Perhaps someone can help me understand why they dont all have this capability.

 

[drozwood90]

I've managed to use a controller to create a pseudo double click event (discussed here), but it would be nice to have the real thing.

Interesting read Zac...how do you handle double tap "ON" ?

My biggest concern was if the controller was down...I'd still want to be able to turn on the lights manually.

BUT, the only sensible way I've seen it, is for Off (as you did it). For ON, if you wanted the thing to dim to ON (100%), but in other cases, dim to on (30%)...that doesn't work too well due to the speed of the UPB protocol. I.e., You tap up once. The light starts to turn on. The controller senses that you turned a light on, knows that it needs to be 30% (due to time, whatever). It sends a DIM to 30%. Since the switch is now at a higher number then 30%, it will dim DOWN to 30%...instead of stopping at 30%.

The only other way I can think to do this, without extra switches, is to let the controller TOTALLY control the lighting, and use the links to turn the lights on and off...Then the controller can turn the lights on to 30% when necessary.

--Dan