How many of you are closet X-10 users.

[davefred99]

I have been reading and researching a lot recently about Home Automation and Lighting. One thing that has become real clear to me is that there are a lot of people that like to bash x-10 yet many people still use it. It seems to me that one reason is that x-10 still has the broadest range of devices and its cheap. I have to admit that I am almost always looking or the most cost effective way to get the job done.
I would love to use the latest and greatest technology but my budget is not such that I can. I am just learning about all this stuff and really have a hard time seeing how much some can invest in this stuff. Too me there seems to be several classes of HA users. The High end user wants nothing but the best and cost is not a factor. The middle Class user wants the best but can't quite afford to go all out and is willing to compromise some and is willing be a DYI'er. Then there is the Average user that love the technology but has a limited budget and is willing to make a lot of compromises and of course is a full DIY"er.
Enough rambling on, my point is that I think a lot of average HA users are using X-10 mixed with some other stuff like Zwave and Insteon but are afraid to admit it because it will make them look like second class HA users. Why else would all the major HA software companies support X-10 completely and all the others in varying degrees. IMHO it is because there are far more x-10 devices in use then any of the other competitors. That does not make it good or bad, just the most predominant.
X-10 has been around for a long time and will continue to be here as long as the other competitors are priced out of the reach of the masses. The thing about technology is that it is supposed to get cheaper as it develops and I don't see that trend with some of the other competing HA brands.
Just some of my thoughts and observations.
Dave

 

[MikeB]

I integrate X10 RF devices (remotes, motions) with my Insteon setup. Can't beat the price and variety of hardware out there!

 

[murphy]

.... there are a lot of people that like to bash x-10 yet many people still use it. It seems to me that one reason is that x-10 still has the broadest range of devices and its cheap. ....

Yes, in the past, I was using X10 and even now.
Of course now the X10-modules are mostly controlled by an Elk-system.
In the future I'll slowly replace it with Elk- or other components.

 

[upstatemike]

I think a lot of average HA users are using X-10 mixed with some other stuff like Zwave and Insteon but are afraid to admit it because it will make them look like second class HA users.

Dave

I am not afraid to admit it... everyone here already knows that I am a second class HA user anyway. My Stargate only talks X-10 so I continue to use it for triggers and chime modules and such. PowerHome does the translation between X-10 and Insteon when required.

 

[TonyNo]

I still have a few X10 lamp/appliance modules that function but I'm mostly Insteon now. Once I hit the tipping point with Insteon (maybe 5 devices), most of the X10 stopped working.

 

[davefred99]

I think a lot of average HA users are using X-10 mixed with some other stuff like Zwave and Insteon but are afraid to admit it because it will make them look like second class HA users.

Dave

I am not afraid to admit it... everyone here already knows that I am a second class HA user anyway. My Stargate only talks X-10 so I continue to use it for triggers and chime modules and such. PowerHome does the translation between X-10 and Insteon when required.

Upstatemike

I notice in your sig you are use Powerhome. How was the learning curve for this software. I am thinking of trying it with my personal upcoming limited HA trial project. I already have some X-10 stuff but may sample some other stuff with it. Kind of a test bed for possible future HA projects. I am a low voltage contractor and need to get more familiar with this stuff.

 

[KenM]

I still have two X-10 out door floodlight modules. They are not an active part of my HA system but the 'motion detection'/'light on' works so well I do not want to get rid of them.

I went from X10 to INSTEON to Z-Wave. My main beef with X10 was that sometimes random noise would turn on lights. There is no bigger reason for tearing out a system than if it turns your lights on unexpectedly (especially at 3 AM on a Sunday).



Ken

 

[BLH]

I have both X10 and Insteon in my setup also. Some things are still not made in the Insteon flavor.

 

[nightwalker]

I'm also a X-10 user, have been since the 70's. I'm in the middle of a slow change over to UPB but it's slow and I'm in no particular hurry about it, X-10 done right is not as bad as it's detractors would lead you to believe. X-10 just has too many device types to allow a complete change over. There will have to be a lot of new products before I'll ever be able to make a complete switch, if ever. For an example i have a couple of X-10 powerhouse alarm clocks in the bedroom, one on each night table. No one else is making something like that yet. I don't use the alarm feature but i use the buttons on top to either turn on lamps or trigger events and it does have a clock built into it so it saves space.

The other protocols have many years of catching up to do.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I agree very much with what nightwalker stated above!

I'm an open X-10 user (i.e. not a "closet" user).

Once I installed a quality signal coupler (X-10 Pro) and obtained a signal strength meter and went around my home and installed filters on all my signal sucks my X-10 is VERY reliable.

I also did not have a giant budget and have used the cheap X-10 decora switches that I got on sale (was a 4 or 5 for $20 sale six years or so ago). I have replaced three or four switches in the course of using them over four years. I did have a Smartlinc-8 go out on me and I did have to purchase three more expensive swithes for non-incandescent lighting, but I don't have a lot of money tied into my lighting automation.

Show me another technology where I don't have to worry about noise and coupling between the phases and I'll go with it. Oh, also let me include linking problems, signal losses, etc...

I also just don't have the funds to drop $40, $50, and up per switch either. Seems to me this would be an exercise in futility if I would switch to another technology as I doubt I would get anywhere near the performance increase for the tremendous cost it would take to implement it.

I also want/need remote control ability (pocket and hand held sizes) and a lot of range as I use/hack them for car monitors. I also use X-10 technology to control my sprinkler system (via WGL Relay 8) and some pretty nifty logic via my Ocelot.

I also use table top controllers in my den, kitchen, and three bedrooms (again, cheap ones).

I would have to give all of this up if I switched to another technology...

Yes, there are systems like the Elk out there to take over some of the programmable logic functions, but it just doesn't have the timer capability that the Ocelot has (and I use this feature a lot).

 

[Steve]

My name is Steve and I'm a HA-aholic. I regularly attend therapy classes at AO with many of my second class peers.

I'm not so sure I can agree with those categories. I think most people would 'want' the best (or at least what they perceive to be the best) but they either are a bit frugal with their money in regard to HA or like many, just don't have the financial means to get what they want. However, its not really always about what people want, but rather, what works. I can tell you I spent nearly an entire weekend trying to make x10 work in my house. In fact, at one point I had all breakers off, so only one circuit was live and I still could not get x10 to work just on that one circuit. I even went so far as to remove any dimmers, fan controllers, anything that plugged in, etc with the same result. I know, it was bizarre that 2 devices would not even work like that. But with that experience plus barely registrable signal level (with phase couplers, etc) there was just no way x10 was going to work for me. So then you need to decide if you want to be in the game, or not. If you want to play, you need to pay, so you find a way to get what you want. It is utterly pointless, in fact, stupid, when you have limited financial means to begin with to spend it on something that is going to be unreliable. You are better off to stretch a little to get something better that you know is solid. If there is no way on earth you can do that, then you just should not be in the game. And, if you decide to be in the game, and you need to stretch - then just be a good shopper, and patient. Yes, I use UPB which technically puts me in one of your more 'elite' categories, but I did UPB because with all my testing/research, etc at the time, it was going to be the most reliable and best quality, to last. But, I watch for sales and good bargains. AO has sales/specials around the 2 Ehx shows a year, they have a holiday sale right now, so there are often good bargains out there to make things more affordable.

If I used x10 I would not be ashamed to admit it, but it is old and cheap for a reason. My time is valuable too, so in the long run it is alot less expensive to put in something that cost more up front, but I don't ever have to touch to keep working.

 

[me2]

I had all x-10 in our old house. We had a few typical problems. Last Feb. we moved into a new home. I had the electrical contractor pay allot of attention to connections, circuits, panels and made sure they ran neutrals everywhere. The new house was to be all Insteon but over the summer because of the cost I installed x-10 for 3 and 4 ways. I now have a mix of 20 or 30 Insteon and 5 x-10 circuits. Have had zero problems with either, so far.

 

[dgeffs]

I've used nothing but X-10 from the day it was first released by BSR way back a zillion years ago. My installation has a phase coupler and has been reliable for years. I have to place noise filters on some of the new (cheap) fixtures I purchase like tranformer driven in cabinet lighting but overall it works fine. The price is right although I am getting to the point now I'd like to be able to bring up certain loads at less than full brightness. I'm sure this can be done with the right switch but I've been too lazy to figure it out.

Dale

 

[upstatemike]

Upstatemike

I notice in your sig you are use Powerhome. How was the learning curve for this software. I am thinking of trying it with my personal upcoming limited HA trial project. I already have some X-10 stuff but may sample some other stuff with it. Kind of a test bed for possible future HA projects. I am a low voltage contractor and need to get more familiar with this stuff.

PowerHome is not too bad to learn for managing Insteon, setting up timers, or triggering things from X10 or Insteon signals. I only have problems when trying to use it for other automation tasks where you need to get into the detailed syntax of individual functions. In those situations I look at the examples on the PowerHome site and still struggle trying to follow it.

Example-
Here is a Macro to simulate sundown with X-10:

insert into macroheader values ('SIMSUNDOWN','SIMSUNDOWN',0,0,1);
insert into macrodetail values ('SIMSUNDOWN',1,9,'',NULL,'"Program DIM started"',1,'');
insert into macrodetail values ('SIMSUNDOWN',2,26,'',NULL,'Start',0,'');
insert into macrodetail values ('SIMSUNDOWN',3,31,'',NULL,'90',0,'');
insert into macrodetail values ('SIMSUNDOWN',4,38,'',0,'ph_devicebtn(x10,"M2",adim,string(p h_getx10level("M2") - 10))',0,'');
insert into macrodetail values ('SIMSUNDOWN',5,27,'',NULL,'if(ph_getx10level("M2") = 0,"Finish","Start") ',0,'');
insert into macrodetail values ('SIMSUNDOWN',6,36,'',NULL,'ph_getx10level ("M2")',0,'');
insert into macrodetail values ('SIMSUNDOWN',7,39,'',NULL,'',0,'');
insert into macrodetail values ('SIMSUNDOWN',8,26,'',NULL,'Finish',0,'');
insert into macrodetail values ('SIMSUNDOWN',9,9,'',NULL,'"Lamp Dimmed to 0%"',1,'');
insert into macrodetail values ('SIMSUNDOWN',10,39,'',NULL,'',0,'');

I cannot make head nor tail of this.

On the other hand Insteon management, triggers, and timed events, can all be set up in the GUI just by pointing and clicking with the mouse. Works great for what I need and maybe someday I will even come to understand the syntax and logic of the ODBC style functions.

 

[123]

I tip my hat to all the folks out there pushing the envelope with Insteon/Zwave/UPB/Xbee/Whatever. Keep swapping out your X10 Switchlincs and please PM me when you want to sell them!

I'm using second-hand X10 devices made by Smarthome (Switchlincs, Keypadlincs, Lamplincs, Appliancelincs). Throw in several PalmPads, and a 240V appliance module to control my pool pump, and my lighting and appliances are covered. My dirt-cheap CM11A works fine (with Misterhouse) and I have another one for backup. My Elk M1 is connected via a PSC05 (~ $8 on eBay).

I filter all the noisemakers in the house (switching power supplies, TV, etc) and the X10 signal travels nicely throughout the house. I haven't found the need for a signal-bridge. My CM11 is connected via a dedicated electrical circuit with a short run to the breaker-box (< 25').

Several used 3COM Audreys scattered throughout the house serve as inexpensive touchscreens/picture frames/public address/clocks/MP3 players. I guess the only thing that's brand-new is the M1.

So, yeah, X10 works for me.