A message from Steve at Smarthome.

[Quixote_1]

The i1 devices won't repeat any extended messages, but to my knowledge it will not block them, either. So if your i2 device is far away from the plm and you have 1 or more i1 devices in between, it's possible that the extended messages would be too weak to make it all the way from the plm to the i2. (Or vice versa). But if they were closer together, the extended messages might work just fine. As Digger said, the extended messages are generally only for faster programming of the links between 2 devices. All commands to turn on/off and activate/respond to group commands are done with standard messages, and these get repeated by all Insteon devices, regardless of whether they are i1 or i2. Tap-Tap linking between devices also uses standard messaging. And you can still program i2 devices using standard messaging.

The SignalLinks do not repeat extended messages, unfortunately.

If that is accurate, then it doesn't seem all that bad to me. Looks like Smarthome didn't drop the ball on that afterall. I mean, what are they supposed to do? Cease all advancements because their original hardware does not support the new developments? That would be ridiculous and backwards-thinking.

 

[sroussey]

And one more follow up to the switch warranty it was extended to a seven year warranty from date of purchase.
One question that has been asked was about returning switches to Smarthome that were purchased from a third party reseller that does not get processed directly through Smarthome. It is always a good idea to check with the reseller to see if they will process the return since they are the one with the order number. If a reseller does not want to take the return we would like to know about it. You still need to fall with in the time limits, 30 days for refund or credit. One year on most products that are found to be defective and two years on INSTEON devices unless they fall into the products with a 7 year warranty for switches that are found to be defective(paddle problem).

Wait, so in the last couple of months I've had over half my SmartHome switches fail, when I complained I was told to expect them to only last two years, and that they were out of warranty, so I had to by new ones. And now that I've replaced them I find out there is a 7-year warranty? What is worse is that the new ones don't look like the old ones, so I had to buy more of the new ones so all the switches in a room looked the same. Some rooms still are 100% old ones, but not many.

(PS: my problem was that pressing the paddles stopped working, using X10 codes to activate them worked just fine. I'm not sure if this was the issue you are talking about).

 

[TonyNo]

I believe the paddle issue on Icons is what was covered. Can someone clarify?

 

[SteveL]

And one more follow up to the switch warranty it was extended to a seven year warranty from date of purchase.
One question that has been asked was about returning switches to Smarthome that were purchased from a third party reseller that does not get processed directly through Smarthome. It is always a good idea to check with the reseller to see if they will process the return since they are the one with the order number. If a reseller does not want to take the return we would like to know about it. You still need to fall with in the time limits, 30 days for refund or credit. One year on most products that are found to be defective and two years on INSTEON devices unless they fall into the products with a 7 year warranty for switches that are found to be defective(paddle problem).

Wait, so in the last couple of months I've had over half my SmartHome switches fail, when I complained I was told to expect them to only last two years, and that they were out of warranty, so I had to by new ones. And now that I've replaced them I find out there is a 7-year warranty? What is worse is that the new ones don't look like the old ones, so I had to buy more of the new ones so all the switches in a room looked the same. Some rooms still are 100% old ones, but not many.

(PS: my problem was that pressing the paddles stopped working, using X10 codes to activate them worked just fine. I'm not sure if this was the issue you are talking about).

sroussey,

The warranty on the switchlinc dimmers and icon switch was extended to seven years before the 2 year warranty ended. Were these switches you purchased from Smarthome or a third party reseller. Smarthome should have returned them with out question. When you said they look different then maybe you are talking about the old switchlinc X-10 line with the green led bar that ran up the side. That is a different product then the type mentioned here.

SteveL

 

[sroussey]

sroussey,

The warranty on the switchlinc dimmers and icon switch was extended to seven years before the 2 year warranty ended. Were these switches you purchased from Smarthome or a third party reseller. Smarthome should have returned them with out question. When you said they look different then maybe you are talking about the old switchlinc X-10 line with the green led bar that ran up the side. That is a different product then the type mentioned here.

SteveL

Yes, the old ones were from 2005/2006 and were X10 based (green lights going up). All the ones that were actually *physically* used all failed over about a three month period. And only the physical (normal!) pushing of the button is what failed. But that is 95% of their use. So are you saying that the newer Insteon (white lights up the top half side) ones are subject to that kind of failure??? Some new type?

I'm already shocked at how much I spent over the last couple of months doing a replacement of them all. I'm going to have to do that again soon?

 

[Digger]

sroussey,

The warranty on the switchlinc dimmers and icon switch was extended to seven years before the 2 year warranty ended. Were these switches you purchased from Smarthome or a third party reseller. Smarthome should have returned them with out question. When you said they look different then maybe you are talking about the old switchlinc X-10 line with the green led bar that ran up the side. That is a different product then the type mentioned here.

SteveL

Yes, the old ones were from 2005/2006 and were X10 based (green lights going up). All the ones that were actually *physically* used all failed over about a three month period. And only the physical (normal!) pushing of the button is what failed. But that is 95% of their use. So are you saying that the newer Insteon (white lights up the top half side) ones are subject to that kind of failure??? Some new type?

I'm already shocked at how much I spent over the last couple of months doing a replacement of them all. I'm going to have to do that again soon?

I was looking in Techmall and there are a few oldddd posts about the paddle problem on the X-10 line as well as Insteon several years ago.

I found this post and was floored as the same problem seems to have re-emerged now with the extended messaging

wuench
Starting Member

11 Posts

Posted - 07/05/2007 : 7:37:30 PM Show Profile Visit wuench's Homepage Reply with Quote
Is the extended messaging checksum bug fixed in the latest firmware revisions on the switchlincs/keypadlincs? If so what firmware version was this fix implemented?

With the PLM, Accesspoints, and latest switchlincs are we a go for extended messaging?
Edited by - wuench on 07/05/2007 7:38:30 PM
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Just to funny........ ok sad.

Sorry Dan I know I promised not to post and upset Steve but this is just a copy of someone else's post from Techmall and pretty much the issue with the V.35 firmware now

 

[gatchel]

Amazing...Absolutely amazing.

Funny, sad, ridiculous even.

I really have not much else to say but things that couldn't be said in a nice forum like CT.

 

[SteveL]

sroussey,

The warranty on the switchlinc dimmers and icon switch was extended to seven years before the 2 year warranty ended. Were these switches you purchased from Smarthome or a third party reseller. Smarthome should have returned them with out question. When you said they look different then maybe you are talking about the old switchlinc X-10 line with the green led bar that ran up the side. That is a different product then the type mentioned here.

SteveL

Yes, the old ones were from 2005/2006 and were X10 based (green lights going up). All the ones that were actually *physically* used all failed over about a three month period. And only the physical (normal!) pushing of the button is what failed. But that is 95% of their use. So are you saying that the newer Insteon (white lights up the top half side) ones are subject to that kind of failure??? Some new type?

I'm already shocked at how much I spent over the last couple of months doing a replacement of them all. I'm going to have to do that again soon?

sroussey,

The INSTEON switches that are shipping currently have not had and paddle or micro switch problems for over a year and a half. There are switches that came out when INSTEON first shipped that continue to work today with regular use. The problem appears to me to be a change of the micro switch from the factory on a small yet significant number of switches that shipped over two years ago. When you said they did not warranty the switches I wanted to make sure that you were not talking about the INSTEON line because they should have honored the warranty. The 2005 and 2006 switches you were talking about were a main part of my product line during my years as an installer and I did not see any significant failures during that time or for that matter even now. My old clients would have contacted me if they were having failures.

P.S. digger, don’t hold back on my account.

SteveL

 

[Digger]

sroussey,

The warranty on the switchlinc dimmers and icon switch was extended to seven years before the 2 year warranty ended. Were these switches you purchased from Smarthome or a third party reseller. Smarthome should have returned them with out question. When you said they look different then maybe you are talking about the old switchlinc X-10 line with the green led bar that ran up the side. That is a different product then the type mentioned here.

SteveL

Yes, the old ones were from 2005/2006 and were X10 based (green lights going up). All the ones that were actually *physically* used all failed over about a three month period. And only the physical (normal!) pushing of the button is what failed. But that is 95% of their use. So are you saying that the newer Insteon (white lights up the top half side) ones are subject to that kind of failure??? Some new type?

I'm already shocked at how much I spent over the last couple of months doing a replacement of them all. I'm going to have to do that again soon?

Way back when if people had put the pressure on SH for the paddle failure on the X-10 devices they might have extended the warranty on them also. If you look way back on forums to 2006 or so you will see this was a known problem.

It takes a royal PIA like myself and others to force SH to do the right thing by using public pressure. They know of a lot of these problems but deny them as long as they can. WIth the X-10 they got lucky and were able to discontinue the product. Guys like you, Sloop, and others lost a fortune.

 

[Digger]

sroussey,

The warranty on the switchlinc dimmers and icon switch was extended to seven years before the 2 year warranty ended. Were these switches you purchased from Smarthome or a third party reseller. Smarthome should have returned them with out question. When you said they look different then maybe you are talking about the old switchlinc X-10 line with the green led bar that ran up the side. That is a different product then the type mentioned here.

SteveL

Yes, the old ones were from 2005/2006 and were X10 based (green lights going up). All the ones that were actually *physically* used all failed over about a three month period. And only the physical (normal!) pushing of the button is what failed. But that is 95% of their use. So are you saying that the newer Insteon (white lights up the top half side) ones are subject to that kind of failure??? Some new type?

I'm already shocked at how much I spent over the last couple of months doing a replacement of them all. I'm going to have to do that again soon?

sroussey,

The INSTEON switches that are shipping currently have not had and paddle or micro switch problems for over a year and a half. There are switches that came out when INSTEON first shipped that continue to work today with regular use. The problem appears to me to be a change of the micro switch from the factory on a small yet significant number of switches that shipped over two years ago. When you said they did not warranty the switches I wanted to make sure that you were not talking about the INSTEON line because they should have honored the warranty. The 2005 and 2006 switches you were talking about were a main part of my product line during my years as an installer and I did not see any significant failures during that time or for that matter even now. My old clients would have contacted me if they were having failures.

P.S. digger, don’t hold back on my account.

SteveL

Steve if you search your own companies forums there are still OLD posts about teh X-10 paddle failures although a lot seem to be removed. I bet if I hunt on Homeseer and other forums I will find them also mentioned.

The products I work with daily use some tact switches and they are expected to last well over 10 years.

We actually recently did an endurance test on an alternate motor in a motorized automated lock. Six samples failed at slightly over 500K cycles. Present issue goes beyond 1 million cycles so we refused to use the motor. That is until it was realized that 500K cycles would last for more than 40 years in a very high use application. So we are re-evaluating again.

The point is that a mfg has a responsibility to do their due diligence to insure that a product has a reasonable life expectancy. Imagine if your car dropped dead just after its 3 year mfg warranty. Would you feel you got your moneys worth?

 

[sroussey]

sroussey,

The INSTEON switches that are shipping currently have not had and paddle or micro switch problems for over a year and a half. There are switches that came out when INSTEON first shipped that continue to work today with regular use. The problem appears to me to be a change of the micro switch from the factory on a small yet significant number of switches that shipped over two years ago. When you said they did not warranty the switches I wanted to make sure that you were not talking about the INSTEON line because they should have honored the warranty. The 2005 and 2006 switches you were talking about were a main part of my product line during my years as an installer and I did not see any significant failures during that time or for that matter even now. My old clients would have contacted me if they were having failures.

P.S. digger, don’t hold back on my account.

SteveL

Well glad to hear that they aren't widespread problems on the new ones I ordered, but support still told me to expect a two year lifespan.

Other than the expense of redoing almost my whole house, which is a big 'other', the Insteon switches are much easier to install and setup. The custom etched buttons for keypad lincs are much nicer looking.

My suggestion to deal with reliability problems is to warranty everything for a longer period (5, 7, or 10 years). The longer the warranty, the more the manufacturer belives in their product, and thus, the more I do as well.

At this point, I'm afraid I will have to add all the light switches to a disclosure statement should I ever sell my place.

 

[Digger]

[/quote]

Well glad to hear that they aren't widespread problems on the new ones I ordered, but support still told me to expect a two year lifespan.


[/quote]

Well at least you can say they were honest with you.

 

[SteveL]

sroussey,

The warranty on the switchlinc dimmers and icon switch was extended to seven years before the 2 year warranty ended. Were these switches you purchased from Smarthome or a third party reseller. Smarthome should have returned them with out question. When you said they look different then maybe you are talking about the old switchlinc X-10 line with the green led bar that ran up the side. That is a different product then the type mentioned here.

SteveL

Yes, the old ones were from 2005/2006 and were X10 based (green lights going up). All the ones that were actually *physically* used all failed over about a three month period. And only the physical (normal!) pushing of the button is what failed. But that is 95% of their use. So are you saying that the newer Insteon (white lights up the top half side) ones are subject to that kind of failure??? Some new type?

I'm already shocked at how much I spent over the last couple of months doing a replacement of them all. I'm going to have to do that again soon?

Way back when if people had put the pressure on SH for the paddle failure on the X-10 devices they might have extended the warranty on them also. If you look way back on forums to 2006 or so you will see this was a known problem.

It takes a royal PIA like myself and others to force SH to do the right thing by using public pressure. They know of a lot of these problems but deny them as long as they can. WIth the X-10 they got lucky and were able to discontinue the product. Guys like you, Sloop, and others lost a fortune.

Well, I can only speak for my self and my experience with the product. A bought alot of it and other than a switch here and there that I shorted out and then returned to SH, I don't think I had a single paddle failure that I can remember. The one problem I did have with the INSTEON switches was the fact that you are supposed to air gap the switch or turn the power off before you install it. Well as an electrician we usually like to do it hot. Well I would burn out about 15% of them when I did it hot. I told SH about the problem and they fixed it. I still don't follow the directions and install them hot. I have not burned up one since.

SteveL

 

[SteveL]

sroussey,

The INSTEON switches that are shipping currently have not had and paddle or micro switch problems for over a year and a half. There are switches that came out when INSTEON first shipped that continue to work today with regular use. The problem appears to me to be a change of the micro switch from the factory on a small yet significant number of switches that shipped over two years ago. When you said they did not warranty the switches I wanted to make sure that you were not talking about the INSTEON line because they should have honored the warranty. The 2005 and 2006 switches you were talking about were a main part of my product line during my years as an installer and I did not see any significant failures during that time or for that matter even now. My old clients would have contacted me if they were having failures.

P.S. digger, don’t hold back on my account.

SteveL

Well glad to hear that they aren't widespread problems on the new ones I ordered, but support still told me to expect a two year lifespan.

Other than the expense of redoing almost my whole house, which is a big 'other', the Insteon switches are much easier to install and setup. The custom etched buttons for keypad lincs are much nicer looking.

My suggestion to deal with reliability problems is to warranty everything for a longer period (5, 7, or 10 years). The longer the warranty, the more the manufacturer belives in their product, and thus, the more I do as well.

At this point, I'm afraid I will have to add all the light switches to a disclosure statement should I ever sell my place.

For an extra 6 dollars a switch SH will offer a 7 year warranty on the switches.

SteveL

 

[Digger]

sroussey,

The warranty on the switchlinc dimmers and icon switch was extended to seven years before the 2 year warranty ended. Were these switches you purchased from Smarthome or a third party reseller. Smarthome should have returned them with out question. When you said they look different then maybe you are talking about the old switchlinc X-10 line with the green led bar that ran up the side. That is a different product then the type mentioned here.

SteveL

Yes, the old ones were from 2005/2006 and were X10 based (green lights going up). All the ones that were actually *physically* used all failed over about a three month period. And only the physical (normal!) pushing of the button is what failed. But that is 95% of their use. So are you saying that the newer Insteon (white lights up the top half side) ones are subject to that kind of failure??? Some new type?

I'm already shocked at how much I spent over the last couple of months doing a replacement of them all. I'm going to have to do that again soon?

Way back when if people had put the pressure on SH for the paddle failure on the X-10 devices they might have extended the warranty on them also. If you look way back on forums to 2006 or so you will see this was a known problem.

It takes a royal PIA like myself and others to force SH to do the right thing by using public pressure. They know of a lot of these problems but deny them as long as they can. WIth the X-10 they got lucky and were able to discontinue the product. Guys like you, Sloop, and others lost a fortune.

Well, I can only speak for my self and my experience with the product. A bought alot of it and other than a switch here and there that I shorted out and then returned to SH, I don't think I had a single paddle failure that I can remember. The one problem I did have with the INSTEON switches was the fact that you are supposed to air gap the switch or turn the power off before you install it. Well as an electrician we usually like to do it hot. Well I would burn out about 15% of them when I did it hot. I told SH about the problem and they fixed it. I still don't follow the directions and install them hot. I have not burned up one since.

SteveL

Are you saying in your opinion that the paddle problem did not exist since you never had a problem?