ALC/OnQ Hardware Question

At one point in time I thought I understood all the parts and pieces I would need to install ALC/OnQ... The pre-wiring has been done but now that I am starting to acquire parts I am second guessing and have a few questions.

I will be using HAI OmniPro for my automation panel.

I think I will need
(1) HAI ALC Interface which can support up to 124 devices and has 4 branches on it.
(2) I then connect each of those four branches to one of these? Branch Hub Which says it can control 31 devices but only has 9 punch downs - I don't understand that part -- how do I get 31 devices with 9 punch downs?

Is that the correct setup? Or am I missing something that turns the 9 punchdowns into 31 devices?

You do not need to terminate every switch at the branch hub. For example, you might have 9 wires leading out from the hub that each have 3-4 switches/devices on them. That could give you the 31 device max.

I know others have used 66 blocks or other punch down blocks to make all the connections as well, either in lue of the hubs or in addition to the hubs.

sic0048 said:

Do do not need to terminate every switch at the branch hub. For example, you might have 9 wires leading out from the hub that each have 3-4 switches/devices on them. That could give you the 31 device max.

I know others have used 66 blocks or other punch down blocks to make all the connections as well, either in lue of the hubs or in addition to the hubs.

Click to expand...

Ok, that makes sense. So I can either punch down multiple cat5s onto the branch hubs - or combine the cat5 connections at the switches to lower my cable length.

broconne said:

sic0048 said:

Do do not need to terminate every switch at the branch hub. For example, you might have 9 wires leading out from the hub that each have 3-4 switches/devices on them. That could give you the 31 device max.

I know others have used 66 blocks or other punch down blocks to make all the connections as well, either in lue of the hubs or in addition to the hubs.

Click to expand...

Ok, that makes sense. So I can either punch down multiple cat5s onto the branch hubs - or combine the cat5 connections at the switches to lower my cable length.

Click to expand...

In theory yes. But I don't think the punch down blocks are designed to have more than one wire punched down into them. So I would try to avoid punching down multiple wires into one connection. I think you would get intermittent problems due to loose wiring in the punch down connector.

This is where people use the 66 blocks or other terminal strips - to combine multiple bus wires into a single wire to connect to the ALC hubs/control units.

Don't know if this will help or not. Just as I think I understand it.... I learn something new. Attached is graphic from a powerpoint file that might help, if you haven't already seen them. PPT is to big to upload here but would make available if you want. it

You can add nine switches to the hub one on each of the different punchdowns for a homerun wiring installation. or you can have a total of 31 switches per hub that are in some type of series wiring connection divided by the nine sets of punchdowns. If I understand correctly aux. switches don't count in the 31 since they do not have an address #.

edited


Nope I am still confused came across this slide indicating the hub only supports 9 addressable switches.

Left: 66 block. cat5e's coming in are punched down on the left. Jumpers on the right of the block connect the on/com/off conductors, also connect the ALC +/- for switches in the same room.

Right, top to bottom: Elk ALC cotroller (currently running in stand-alone mode), distribution hub, branch hub.



EDIT: changed to more recent pic depicting bridging clips in place.

AceCannon said:

Left: 66 block. cat5e's coming in are punched down on the left. Jumpers on the right of the block connect the on/com/off conductors, also connect the ALC +/- for switches in the same room.

Right, top to bottom: Elk ALC cotroller (currently running in stand-alone mode), distribution hub, branch hub.

Click to expand...

AceCannon, good pic. Hoping I understand, in your pic you are using 2 of the what I'll call ports on the branch hub. On the first port there are 6 connections(4 switches, 2 Aux?) are the tx+/tx- conductors for the 4 connected in series via the wire loops on the right side of the 66 block before heading to the branch hub?

Edited because I need to think more before typing...

sbwright, you're on the right track here.

Where possible i would join the polling loop wires (white and yellow on the switches i believe) together where you have multiple switches in the same gangbox/location. This will cut down dramtically on the total length of your communication bus. I don't the length is a significant issue for the On/Common/Off wires, some voltage drop may occur, but i doubt it woudl be a real issue since there is no reall communication going on there.

I believe that the hubs essentially have a signal amp in them (powered by the 12v) and that the output of that amp is shared across all 9 ports, so it's not 500ft per port, but the total that counts. I hope to get this confirmed somehow..

Between the lot of us i think we are starting to have a pretty good understanding of this system and it's probably a good idea to get the 'designs' vetted by the group before jumping in and spending $$$$.

I havent' messed with my ALC install (12 active switches or so at this time with 6 NIB) in a few months but need to pick this up again to get some more things automated. Anybody hear from Tony Stewart lately?

On a seperate note, has anybody messed with this Scene Tech software?

sbwright said:

AceCannon, good pic. Hoping I understand, in your pic you are using 2 of the what I'll call ports on the branch hub. On the first port there are 6 connections(4 switches, 2 Aux?) are the tx+/tx- conductors for the 4 connected in series via the wire loops on the right side of the 66 block before heading to the branch hub?

Click to expand...

Yep, exactly. I used a length of blue/whiteblue extracted from a cat5e scrap and punched it down to each of the tx+/tx- locations with the "non-cutting" end of the impact tool, then ran it over to the branch hub and punch/cut it. Very tidy. Then used bridging clips to connect that one long wire to each switch on the other side of the block. So if I needed to trouble shoot one switch, I could take it out of the equation by just removing its bridging clips. (The 66block was $11.80 from tselectronic.com, part number S66M1-50. They sell the bridging clips, too).

AceCannon said:

sbwright said:

AceCannon, good pic. Hoping I understand, in your pic you are using 2 of the what I'll call ports on the branch hub. On the first port there are 6 connections(4 switches, 2 Aux?) are the tx+/tx- conductors for the 4 connected in series via the wire loops on the right side of the 66 block before heading to the branch hub?

Click to expand...

Yep, exactly. I used a length of blue/whiteblue extracted from a cat5e scrap and punched it down to each of the tx+/tx- locations with the "non-cutting" end of the impact tool, then ran it over to the branch hub and punch/cut it. Very tidy. Then used bridging clips to connect that one long wire to each switch on the other side of the block. So if I needed to trouble shoot one switch, I could take it out of the equation by just removing its bridging clips. (The 66block was $11.80 from tselectronic.com, part number S66M1-50. They sell the bridging clips, too).

Click to expand...

If I understand then the bridging clips for the switches tx+/tx- on the 66 block are removed in the pic?

sbwright said:

If I understand then the bridging clips for the switches tx+/tx- on the 66 block are removed in the pic?

Click to expand...

Changed the pic to a new one showing the bridging clips in place. The pic now depicts it in actual use. Top connections are the kitchen, bottom are the keeping room.

AceCannon said:

Left: 66 block. cat5e's coming in are punched down on the left. Jumpers on the right of the block connect the on/com/off conductors, also connect the ALC +/- for switches in the same room.

Right, top to bottom: Elk ALC cotroller (currently running in stand-alone mode), distribution hub, branch hub.

Click to expand...

Just to play devil's advocate, I contend that both the distribution hub and the branch hub are wasted in this setup.

I believe the sole purpose of the distribution hub is to land wires in its punch down blocks. The hub's job is to land wires and amplify signals and provide a "new" 500 foot wiring limit. You aren't landing any wires on the distro hub or the branch hub, and since all your lights are wired to the hub, you are using its 500 foot limit, but not the 500 foot limit of the branch itself. Perhaps it would make more sense for the first 66 block segment to attach directly to the branch, and the second segment to connect to the hub.

Heck if you paid for the distro hub and branch, why not just land your connections on it? I'll bet you could put all the connections from your 66 block onto the two ALC devices instead. Is there some downside to wiring the way ALC intended (i.e. landing to their punchdowns)? (Devil's advocate -- no criticism intended)

--Bob

P.S. I just finished the wiring layout for my house. It contains 11 Hubs in 4 locations for 97 switches and 59 AUXes. To get around the 500'/branch limit I need lots of hubs! The 66blk is $12/12loads (assuming several AUXes). The hub is $40/9 loads (and 10 AUXes) so it is a bit more expensive.

AceCannon said:

sbwright said:

If I understand then the bridging clips for the switches tx+/tx- on the 66 block are removed in the pic?

Click to expand...

Changed the pic to a new one showing the bridging clips in place. The pic now depicts it in actual use. Top connections are the kitchen, bottom are the keeping room.

Click to expand...

Thanks for that, clears that up for me.