Which HA software has TV interface & integrates with Sage?

[felixrosbergen]

Hi All,

I am evaluating my options for media distribution and home automation.

Based on a lot of information in the 'Home Theather' forums I am fairly convinced that I'd like to go with a SageTV setup using media extenders.

I am also fairly sure I'll be using Elk for security and HA features and possibly insteon for lighting.

I would also like to have control over my home automation via a TV interface. From my understanding some HA software package will integrate with Mircosoft Media Center and allow control via video extender, but i would image this woudl only work when you use MCE media extender and not SageTV media extender? Can anybody confirm?

What software or combination would allow me to do what i want? It seems if i want to go with SageTV i can't do TV based HA control.

Which HA software package have TV based control? Homeseer i thought? How about CQC?

I am new to this but pretty technically adapt and willing to spend some time on this. Woudl CQC still be 'too much' for a beginner or is it doable? I assume Homeseer is ok for 'beginners'.

Any advice greatly appreciated as i'm somewhat confused at the moment.

 

[Steve]

While I can't give you specific answers about using your tv, I'd like to address a few points you mentioned.

and possibly insteon for lighting

I would seriously reconsider this.

Which HA software package have TV based control? Homeseer i thought? How about CQC?

I know there are some folks using CQC on their tv. There are some posts about this on the CQC forums. I believe there is also a Sage driver for CQC and IVB is working with some driver developers to possible integrate it better. He can provide more details.

I am new to this but pretty technically adapt and willing to spend some time on this. Woudl CQC still be 'too much' for a beginner or is it doable? I assume Homeseer is ok for 'beginners'.

I don't really look at it that way. All of us were 'beginners' at some point. I think it is more important to choose the best tool for the job. We all know we can use the handle of a screwdriver as a hammer, but a hammer is more effective. And then some hammers just fit in your hand and feel better than others, even tho generally they will all get the job done. So, when it comes to HA software I think it is more important to draft your 'MUSTS/NEEDS' and 'WANTS' then choose software that meets that. When you narrow down to a few, then test drive them and see which one you are most comfortable with.

Now to answer that last question directly, no, I don't think CQC is too much for a beginner, 2 years ago I had no clue about it but now I love it (only took a few weeks to decide that). Homeseer is no more for a beginner imho, it is just a different product for a slightly different audience.

 

[IVB]

What's your definition of "integrate"? Show Sage stuff on a CQC/other screen, or show CQC/other stuff on a Sage Screen?

If it's show sage stuff on a CQC/other screen, then at this point CQC is the only application that can do that nicely. Here's my screen:

selecting a show brings this up: (note the HD and 1st run indicator)

You *could* use embedded web browser stuff to use HomeSeer/MainLobby/others to display it, but I tried it and realistically speaking, the web stuff is pretty difficult to use in that fashion. The transitions between screens/etc were too clunky, response time was awful, no way to use a touchscreen, no control over the screens themselves without programming.

As far as HA content on a Sage screen, HAL does that today, but Beelzerob is working on that for CQC. There's a thread somewhere on Cocoontech where he talks about his confidence level in his ability to create a Sage driver for CQC, it's just a matter of time.

 

[CollinR]

If you install the dynamic menus plugin you can use any automation package with a command line interface for one way sending of commands.


Also you could use Home Automated Living, however I am pretty unsure of the bang:buck ratio on that. They haven't released a new version in a year and their community seems to be winding down.

 

[IVB]

If you install the dynamic menus plugin you can use any automation package with a command line interface for one way sending of commands.

True, but one-way command line based is a pretty liberal use of the word "integration". It's more like "quilt-making", where you're really just stitching together apps that aren't integrated. By that def'n, you could also claim any apps that IRMan & USB-UIRT support are "integrated" cuz you can have one app send an IR command via the USBUirt, the other app receive it via the IRMan, and perform actions.

I'd vote to reserve the word "integration" for 2way control, and use the word "control" for the above scenario.

 

[CollinR]

I think he is talking about what can you get into the SageTV interface rather then what can you extract from the SageTV server. As such nothing but Home Automated Living has any sort of "integration". Specifically:

I would also like to have control over my home automation via a TV interface. From my understanding some HA software package will integrate with Mircosoft Media Center and allow control via video extender, but i would image this woudl only work when you use MCE media extender and not SageTV media extender? Can anybody confirm?

The answer to that one is I am pretty sure it is only on MCE extenders however I am surprised MCE has anything like that.

What software or combination would allow me to do what i want? It seems if i want to go with SageTV i can't do TV based HA control.

SageTV + Home Automated Living

(I just don't suggest you buy Home Automated Living, I personally would rather have free 1 way control then pay $160 for dying software. Unless version 4 comes out and is a big hit with the automation community I think their development is done.)

Which HA software package have TV based control? Homeseer i thought? How about CQC?

With an RF remote and a TV out on your video card you can make any software that will run VGA resolution have a TV interface. From this point you can use any and plug the automation controller's TV out into an open composite port on the SageTV server. The low resolution will be a decent limiting factor of this if you have HD TVs otherwise it could be made workable.

Thats somewhat a totally different question and not exactly what I think you are looking for, IMHO having the default remote work with the extenders and relying on the UP/DN L/R OK for most controls is superior. This would also add the ability for multiple concurrent commands to be sent. In the first manner it would be a PITA to get that going and require some clunkiness in the end and more hardware $.

I am new to this but pretty technically adapt and willing to spend some time on this. Woudl CQC still be 'too much' for a beginner or is it doable? I assume Homeseer is ok for 'beginners'.

Neither CQC nor Homeseer currently have an interface for SageTV, so it's really a non-issue. You should evaluate them on other merits and add in for the potential of getting a SageTV interface. Since none has mentioned MainLobby then Girder then EventGhost and now possibly vCrib, I guess I should. Those are probably considered the major players with potential to produce an interface that runs inside a server session in SageTV. I think they are in pretty close order as to timeline, flipped up some for ease if it were completed.

Right now it's a tough time to make a choice, as such I chose to use whats cheap/free and figure out what matters most to me personally and my family. It is inevitable you will waste $$$ in this hobby. You will learn something with each step though. Somethings you thought would really matter later you find don't, somethings you never thought about will become paramont.




To make this more difficult you also have the option that someone flip/flops it. What about SageTV's miniclient.jar running inside CQC or Mainlobby? Totally possible probably even easier to do then the other way around. This might put you back at PCs at the TVs though which conflicts the $80 SD and $199 HD extenders.

 

[felixrosbergen]

So having a central HA PC with VGA output to an input card and a Sage server woudl work? But the inherent 'delay' in Sage (same reason channel surfing is not good in Sage) would make it 'clunky'? Do i understand that right?

So my options at this time are:
- Use MCE for TV distro and have Homeseer, this shoudl allow me to use MCE extender at each TV and all should play nice together right?
- USe SageTV with Sage Extenders, then have a totally seprate HA setup (non tv based touchscreen)
- Use SateTV but use PC's as clients at each TV, same PC's could also run HA stuff. This should work but will be costly due to the price differene of an extender versus a PC.

I'm glad i started thinking about this early, realistically my decision is months out. WHo knows that 'they' come up by then.

Can somebody confirm Homeseer would work on MCE media extenders?

Does CQC always need some sort of PC to run on?

I have not seen Cortexa mentioned anywhere. Is this a whole other supplier or just a company 'wrapping' some other technology (possibly homeseer) nicely?

Thanks for the replies, this community is great. Just from reading this and other threads it indeed sounds like HAL is on it's way out the door.

 

[CollinR]

So having a central HA PC with VGA output to an input card and a Sage server woudl work? But the inherent 'delay' in Sage (same reason channel surfing is not good in Sage) would make it 'clunky'? Do i understand that right?

No I'm not sure where the SageTV channel charge gripes come from, if you have a cable or Sat box channel changing sucks and SageTV cannot improve it. There is a configurable delay between live and displayed IIRC default is 1500ms, with analog tuners this isn't really overly noticeable. If you increase that value it will make network encoding more stable and the percieved channel change longer.

It'll be clunky as you'll need to use an RF based remote to control the cursor on the system connected. It too will have the 1500ms delay and that won't help any.

I really wouldn't suggest this route no matter what other choices you make, it could be used to "get you by" but it's a poor choice for a goal.

So my options at this time are:
- Use MCE for TV distro and have Homeseer, this shoudl allow me to use MCE extender at each TV and all should play nice together right?
- USe SageTV with Sage Extenders, then have a totally seprate HA setup (non tv based touchscreen)
- Use SateTV but use PC's as clients at each TV, same PC's could also run HA stuff. This should work but will be costly due to the price differene of an extender versus a PC.

Assuming you consider MCE a viable option I guess so.

Also if you want to browse the web well you will want a PC client there and so it may not make much difference to you.

Does CQC always need some sort of PC to run on?

It needs a Windows machine running.

I have not seen Cortexa mentioned anywhere. Is this a whole other supplier or just a company 'wrapping' some other technology (possibly homeseer) nicely?

I don't like Cortexa, can't remember why though... I think they may make claims they in reality can't backup, thats a deal killer for me. Maybe it's zwave support??? I can't recall maybe I'm totally wrong.

 

[IVB]

Neither CQC nor Homeseer currently have an interface for SageTV, so it's really a non-issue. You should evaluate them on other merits and add in for the potential of getting a SageTV interface.

that's the best path. give me and rob 75 days (end of march) to see what we can get done, with any luck tangible and independently confirmable progress will be made by then.

believe me you, this is going to happen, its not a question of potential. CQC's inherent architecture is such that this is an inevitability, the only question is 'when in 2008 will it show up.'

 

[Steve]

Cortexa is actually a pretty nice setup. It's essentially a linux box running their software and a touchscreen. The main limitation, at least for me, is that the interface is not customizable. WYSIWYG. But is does work well for what it is. Automated Outlet distributes it now as well.

 

[DavidL]

MainLobby has a complete integration with BeyondTV today.

The below shots are examples of a completely user configurable user interface that doesn't exist with BeyondTV on it's own (or SageTV). They just happen to mirror BeyondTV's look for BTV user comfort zone

The integration takes about 10 minutes to install once MainLobby is running.

BTV Home

MLBTV RecordedShows

MLBTV Recording Settings

MLBTV Upcoming Shows

BlockBuster lookup


We will do same with SageTV.

 

[DeLicious]

i'm just glad to see i'm not the only one that has had their DVR taken over by Dora, Diego, and Clifford

 

[CollinR]

I would push heavily to have the MainLobby screens inside SageTV rather then like BeyondTV was done. Make sure placeshifter can handle it and it'll be a winner for sure.

 

[DavidL]

I would push heavily to have the MainLobby screens inside SageTV rather then like BeyondTV was done. Make sure placeshifter can handle it and it'll be a winner for sure.

We may just do both

 

[Berg]

I would push heavily to have the MainLobby screens inside SageTV rather then like BeyondTV was done. Make sure placeshifter can handle it and it'll be a winner for sure.

We may just do both

Wow !