Green, wet behind the ears, newbie, call it what you want

[HeyYou]

Well, now I know who to PM with my HOMESEER questions...lol Thanks Rupp The one thing I HAVE noticed about HomeSeer is the concept of what I'll call "modular usage"...and charging. Is that ALWAYS going to be the HomeSeer model, build add-on modules and charge the general public a big fee for it? In today's day and age with the advent of open source coding, I would think there would be LOTS of tools and goodies one could download. Oh well.

So, any volunteers for the Elve stuff? Who wants to be my Elve sounding board? I've already downloaded the HomeSeer trial, next is the Elve trial and see what I think about them both. Although I will say one thing, so far, the Elve software seems to move a lot faster on my computer....the HomeSeer seems dog slow on my PC at home. That being said, I WOULD get a fully dedicated PC for this system regardless which package I choose.

 

[Deane Johnson]

Elve is new, still in Beta, so there are not a lot of users on Cocoontech yet. I might be able to help you a little, but the good news is that John Hughes, the CEO of CodeCore is very active in helping individuals. He spent the entire 4th of July weekend helping me get started, as I was a total neophyte on all of this stuff. I had some pretty dumb questions as you might guess.

Deane

 

[roussell]

If you're going with Homeseer, the best option IMO is to go with the Pro version. You can catch it on sale for $399 and it includes all of the HS branded plugins and HSTouch. I'm not a fan of all the separate $29.95+ plugins but with HSPro and the free ones that are offered you can get by, especially since you are a developer - you can write you own.

I don't use Homeseer - I use HouseBot which is very robust, esp. for it's sub $100 entry fee. There is no iOS client device as it's MS only, but I've gotten around that by using a free remote desktop product on the iPhone (iRdesktop) and multiple terminal server instances on the HouseBot server. HouseBot supports Insteon and Zwave - the development is "sleeping" right now according to the developer as he has other responsibilities outside of HouseBot, but it is the most stable piece of Windows software I have ever ran and it supports all I need so I'm not complaining. I think it's a good choice for the hard-core tinkerer/ developer type.

Terry

 

[oberkc]

the assembly language firmware loaded onto the ISY controller = the C or VB or WHATEVER language software coding in HomeSeer or Elve? The only difference being the ISY controller requires you to code the events yourself and the others have this nice GUI to allow you to pick and choose what events/scenes you want to build and use?

I don't know or care about assembly language or C or C++ or fortran or anything like that. There is no "coding" in the ISY. Programs are generated automatically, based on some GUI allowing you to pick and choose the events, scenes, triggers, conditions, time, days-of-week, etc... In my eye, they look like programs once generated, but the verbiage is generated automatically.

Bottom line, if I buy HomeSeer and some Insteon Access points and switches, I can control them with nothing else? Or do I STILL need a physical controller to communicate between the on-air insteon devices and the HomeSeer software?

A typical computer does not have either RF or powerline communication capable of communication with insteon (or X-10, or whatever). Most of these will require some type of powerline or RF or network device allowing communication with whatever protocol you choose. It looks like Rupp gave you a good idea about the devices you need with homeseer.

The ISY comes either stand-alone or in a kit. The kit includes the ISY itself, as well as a device called a powerline modem, which does the actual communication over the house electrical wires. The newest modems are "dual band" which includes RF capability, in addition. In addition to the kit, you will need an insteon module for each device you wish to control. They typically come in plug-in and hardwired versions, dimming and relay. There are a lot more devices intended for garage doors, security, home theater, etc. Like most powerline communication devices, you will likely need a method (typically access points) to communicate across legs (aka phases) of a typical residential electrical system. It is possible that you already have certain things throughout your house (including the computer system) that can interfere with insteon communication. For those, you may need a filter. All are available at smarthome.

Understand, too, that a whole house controller (such as the ISY) is not even required for the simplest of insteon applications. All insteon modules can be controllers of other insteon modules. You could use a keypad to control a lamp module (or multiple modules). My first installation was nothing more than this. I had one keypad with 3 plug-in modules and a couple of light switches. If all you want to do is to walk in a room, press a button, and have a pre-defined lighting scene activate, then a house controller is not required. This may be a good starting point if you choose the insteon route.

 

[Rupp]

Well, now I know who to PM with my HOMESEER questions...lol Thanks Rupp The one thing I HAVE noticed about HomeSeer is the concept of what I'll call "modular usage"...and charging. Is that ALWAYS going to be the HomeSeer model, build add-on modules and charge the general public a big fee for it? In today's day and age with the advent of open source coding, I would think there would be LOTS of tools and goodies one could download. Oh well.

You have two options here. First option is to buy HSPro and you get all HomeSeer plugins plus the HSTouch app, the iPhone, iPad apps included in the price.
The second option is by HomeSeer 2 and only add the plugins that you need. I would "guess" that most Homeseer users are not using more than 3 or 4 add on plugins. It does a ton out of the box and over half of the plugins are free. There's an additional option if you are a developer in that you can download the free SDK and create your own plugins. Bring on the questions. We have some good beginner videos and a very helpful message board as well.

 

[HeyYou]

Bring on the questions. We have some good beginner videos and a very helpful message board as well.

Okay, here's what I've done so far...basic mind you....lol.

- I have two access points and I've made sure they are on two separate phases so I have both covered.
- I have replaced my bathroom light switch with an ICON Dimmer switch, set the dimmer level to about 40% and then I linked a silver RemoteLinc (sp?) to control the light so my better half can get use the bathroom in the middle of the night without having to turn the light on all the way.
- I've replaced a light switch controlling my walk-in closet and put a Triggerlinc on the door so when my better half forgets to turn off the light, it automatically goes of. For chits and giggles, I've also linked the closet light to the silver remote.
- Now, I'm ready for the next thing I bought the OTHER Triggerlinc for...but I think it's going to be a bit more tricky; my basement door.

I would like to place the second Triggerlinc on the basement door and figure out how to send a message to somewhere when the door opens including the time it opened. Then, when the Triggerlinc event triggers because the door has been closed, a subsequent signal is sent SOMEWHERE saying the door has been closed. What I REALLY want to do is setup some sort of automatic polling to check the Triggerlinc to make sure the door is closed. I've had many a times where my better or I have not closed the door all the way and the wind blows the door open....only to find out the next morning when we let the dog out or a bird flies through the house. My ULTIMATE desire is to have some sort of timer that determines the door has been open for 20 minutes or more and starts blinking lights around the house indicating there is something wrong. Essentially, like building a security system without ALL the bells and whistles...later, I might try and get fancy and send myself text messages telling me Hey idiot, you left the door open!!!

The problem I am having thus far is figuring out HOW to receive the Open event trigger generated by the Triggerlinc. I've tried using the Smartlinc (oh yeah, I have a Smartlinc installed too with an ethernet link to my router) but I cannot figure out IF the Smartlinc SEES the Triggerlinc nor if it is receiving any feedback statuses. How can I tell if it is or not?

Thanks in advance everyone

Rook

 

[oberkc]

I am not a user of smartlinc. The only knowledge I have of it is from what I have read in the manual and product descriptions. My perception is that your desire with the baseement door is beyond the abilities of the smartlinc. I am not sure how to to determine if smartlinc can see your insteon devices.

An alternative solution, however, may be with a keypad at some convenient location. Link the triggerlinc to a keypad button. If the door is open, the keypad is lit. If closed, off. I use a keypad for similar purposes (garage door status) in an enclosure next to the bed.

The ISY could give you some of the timing and polling capability. Flashing of lights is possible, but this tends to be via a brute force method and not very elegant.

Your automation plans and knowlege are further advanced than I had originally percieved. Since it appears you have picked a controller and protocol, I suggest heading over to the smarthome forum for detailed advice on these devices.

 

[HeyYou]

Your automation plans and knowlege are further advanced than I had originally percieved. Since it appears you have picked a controller and protocol, I suggest heading over to the smarthome forum for detailed advice on these devices.

Although I HAVE some of this stuff already bought and installed, I view myself as someone who simply jumped in with both feet...now I'm trying to make sure I can swim...lol. I'm still in the wading phase trying to see which protocol(S) I can use and how to control them best.

The thing I'm trying to figure out now is whether or not the Smartlinc is going to work for me. Based on your feedback, it sounds like it might not be the device I need and maybe I should return it...question is, what device SHOULD I use to control everything.

I've downloaded the Elve trial this morning to see if I can get it to see my devices. So far, I've had no luck but it may be because I'VE set something up wrong. I do a LOT of install, tinker and hope it works. (as I imagine most people do) If it doesn't work, I play and tinker until I can figure out what's going on and how to make it work. The driver listing in Elve shows a driver for the Insteon PowerModem but not the Smartlinc. Is there a go to place for Elve drivers that are not installed by default or does this mean the Smartlinc just isn't supported?

Finally, I apologize if you're feeling like I mislead you with regards to my knowledge on all of this...I didn't, I'm just a quick learner...lol....but I have LOTS of gaps in my knowledge...sort of a jack of all trades and master of none. B) I REALLY appreciate all the advice and lessons learned from everyone...regardless of their affiliation and investment in one protocol over another.

Mike

 

[Rupp]

The Smartlinc is a standalone controller and not a PC interface. You need a PLM if you are going to use a PC.

 

[oberkc]

The thing I'm trying to figure out now is whether or not the Smartlinc is going to work for me. Based on your feedback, it sounds like it might not be the device I need and maybe I should return it...question is, what device SHOULD I use to control everything.

Based upon what I have read, I would conclude that the Smartlinc should go back to smarthome. For controlling insteon, I suspect it is hard to beat the ISY-99. There are probably software programs available that match the capability of the ISY, but I have no experience with them.

If you wish to experiment with other protocols, I suspect you will have to go with one of the software packages already recommended on this thread. Homeseer is probably the one I would try.

 

[pete_c]

Home automation (the term) has changed over the years (at least for me). In the late 1970's while still in school I rented a 4 bedroom home. Around that time I decided to "automate" the light switches in the home. It was a simple set up with an X-10 timer.

Did a quick home automation wiki search....interesting new name they give home automation - domotics

Wiki

In the early 1980's continued to utilize X-10 in the first home I purchased. Still very simple just controlling exterior/interior lighting. Sometime in the 1980's purchased an "alarm" panel which had built in speech processing for its multiple zones (think it was something like 32 or 48 zones). I liked the concept and started to put speakers in different rooms in the home attached to the panel. The developer of the alarm panel and I spoke in the early 1990's about its integration with X-10. The owner/developer showed me documentation relating to a prototype he was building. I don't know if it was ever sold.

While moving into the late 1980's I played with a Commodore Amiga computer and some early X10 and TTS applications. TTS was very primitive and machine sounding like.

Sometime in the 1990's migrated the X10 control from a timer to a MS Windows 3.1 application installing it on a very small footprint PC (concurrently played with CRT touchscreens and "light pens"). I still have the PC today. It as a point of sale machine with the footprint a bit bigger than a slip printer. It had a built in NIC (one of the first of its kind) and multiple serial DB9 connections. I think it was an Epson or Seiko device. The box was my first "automation" computer as it was only set up to manage my X10 switches via a Windows 3.1 program. Attached are some pictures.

The first HS server that I used for over a year was a legacy free PC called Easy Now (Sunflower). Purchased it for about $70 barebones. It ran fine for about 2 years (around 2001-2003). Here's a picture of it.

Sometime in the early 2000's (late 1990's) started to play with Homeseer. It provided some interesting features - X10 control and TTS; some flexibility with scheduling and some very custom "home automation" type plugins. Today I continue to utilize Homeseer and its evolved some with the term Home Automation. Concurrently about 7 years ago purchased a new alarm panel (HAI OPII) with some "built-in" home automation features; lighting, HVAC, sound, etc. I utilize both today for my home automation. My Homeseer server talks to my HAI OPII. I prefer to keep most of the lighting/HVAC events on the HAI OPII (primarily a security panel)

I continue to utilize X-10 today. Years ago migrated all my X-10 switches to Insteon and utilized both of the powerline protocals. Today I have X10, UPB and Z-Wave connected to my HAI Panel and X10, UPB and Insteon connected to my Homeseer server. My HA server today has over 18 direct serial connections utilized for various gadgets I keep playing with. I don't use the server as a primary lighting controller, nor HVAC but rather do things like manage my water sprinkler system, weather station, news sites screen scrapes, etc. I am waiting for the light switch that actually reports power usage. Here's an attached drawing of the serial connections to my Homeseer server (plus other stuff).

I like weather so I upload my weather stats to WeatherUnderground utilizing my HS server and automated my sprinkler system (using a touch screen).

Personally my take is that the best intro into Home Automation for a newbee is lighting control. How you do it and what you utilize is up to you. Its simple and has evolved much since the 1970's.