Elk Thermostat Automation Rules

[johnnynine]

I'm trying to set up 4 HVAC modes and having a little trouble with the Elk rules.

For instance it doen't look like Elk supports a "NOT" keyword, so something as easy as the Bedtime mode below could get complicated. I basically want the rule to fire everyday at 11pm but only if the alarm is not armed to vacation mode. It seems simple enough to do in one rule, but since there is no "NOT" then will I have to create a rule for every armed mode other than vacation?

HVAC Mode   Desired Temp  When...
---------   ------------  -------
Comfort     75h, 81c      Alarm set to disarm
                           SMTWTFS @ 6am if the system is
                             armed to stay, night
                             or disarmed
                           -MTWTF- @ 4:45pm if the system is
                             armed to away

Economy     68h, 88c      Alarm set to away

Bedtime     75h, 81c      SMTWTFS @ 11pm if alarm NOT set
                            to vacation

Vacation    60h, 88c      Alarm set to vacation

PS: Ignore the temperature, I have not given them much thought yet.

 

[harleydude]

You could use an output that is triggered on when the system is in Vacation mode and turned off when the system is disarmed. Then write something like

IF 11:00 PM and Output 4 is off then ...Not in vacation mode

IF 11:00 PM and Output 4 is on then ...In vacation mode

I think that will get it for you.

Rick

 

[johnnynine]

Yes that's a good idea. I had already thought of setting a custom value or something to keep track of which mode was running for other purposes.

But I was hoping there would be a simple (easier to read/debug) way of doing it. :lol:

 

[shenandoah75]

I think there was a thread a while back where several people (including me) tried to give Spanky the same sort of justification for a NOT condition...

I think his point is logically, the NOT condition may not be event triggered. i.e. if the not vacation was your only condition, it would have to fire indefinately to check. At least that's my recollection. I still think it would make sense to force the initial part of the rule to be event driven by some state change, but allow subsequent portions of the rule to use NOT in conjunction with it... rules would be simple if that were added

-brad

 

[johnnynine]

That sounds good to me.

Spanky?

 

[opie]

I'm not sure what kind of thermostat you have but I'll throw this out.

I use the HAI RC-80B and use it's internal schedule for the normal stuff like Wake and Bedtime settings but have the M1 modify set points based on conditions like armed status. To keep the internal schedule from overriding the M1 while away for longer pierods, I place the thermostat in Hold mode when Armed to Vacation mode to keep the house at 62 degrees.

This has worked well for me and saved some precious rule space in the M1.

Just my .02.

 

[Spanky]

I am definately going to put NOT and OR in the next generation system. Right now there is not enough ROM code space to implement all those functions. As stated above you can not trigger a WHENEVER event from a NOT state. The NOT will have to be included in an AND statement.

 

[shenandoah75]

Spanky you are THE MAN!!!! (can you define next generation? by the ROM comment, i am presuming this means it this is a hardware constraint, not a software update and that it will not go into existing M1G's?)

Wish all companies listened to user feedback like Elk, customer service would be so good....

 

[crossbar]

I am definately going to put NOT and OR in the next generation system. Right now there is not enough ROM code space to implement all those functions. As stated above you can not trigger a WHENEVER event from a NOT state. The NOT will have to be included in an AND statement.

Looks like Spany is "off-line" these days Last Active Aug 25 2014 11:01 PM.  And after 8 years it would appear that the next generation system is vapor ware for the foreseeable future.
Does anyone know if Elk is planning on a next generation system?  Has there ever been any talk of Elk releasing the M1 system as open-source?

 

[drvnbysound]

Does anyone know if Elk is planning on a next generation system? 

I haven't heard or read anything indicating so, but I assume they aren't just sitting on their hands. Then again, that doesn't mean I expect a new system in the next year or two either...
 

Has there ever been any talk of Elk releasing the M1 system as open-source?

HIGHLY doubt that will ever happen. There is a published document regarding how to code to it's interfaces; which would be how developers have written apps for it. Beyond that, I doubt you're going to get anything else.

 

[crossbar]

Is there any way of getting the actual value of the temperature from a thermostat?  You can get the value of the temperature from a Keypad or a hardwired zone temperature sensor but not from a Thermostat.  Is there any way to do this so it can be used for example to display on a keypad?   The only way I see that this could possible be done would be to set up a counter that you step incrementally through all possible values and compare the counter with the thermostat temp each step and then use the counter value as the temperature value when they are equal.   Seems like a very cumbersome way to do this.
 
I am beginning to see why everyone says they do their automation with an additional system automation controller instead of the ELK.