Outdoor motions for lights/chime

[LaurentR]

I am looking for motion sensors that I can use outdoor (some would probably not be protected from the rain) for the purpose of triggering lights and getting announcements on the security panel. This would be for the frontyard, sideyards and pool areas.

I have an Elk with M1XRF and Zwave for the lights. Ideally, the motions need to be connected to the Elk, not zwave.
I can go wired for most of them, but I need a couple of wireless ones (too hard to pull cables).

A few questions:

- Security PIRs seem to be tuned to reduce false alarms as much as possible. Are they good for light triggering or should I look at another technology (radar...). Also, what do I need to do to avoid triggering from movement in the neighbor's yard? I am not sure what is used in the cheap motion+light combos sold out the local home depot.

- Pet-immune sensors look like a good idea to avoid cats triggering the motions, but I still need "see" toddlers. Can I use a pet-immune or they'd also filter out toddlers?

- Any recommendation that would meet the above requirements for wired motions that are rain and element proof (note: where I live, there is no snow or extreme low temperature).

- Any recommendation for a M1XRF wireless motion that would sort-of work? I have one of the 60-511-02-95 right now, but I'd have to put it in a rain-protected area, and I am not sure if it's good for light triggering.

Laurent

 

[upstatemike]

Maybe this is cheating but I always use cheap Heath/Zenith motion sensors from Home Depot. I wire them to an outlet instead of directly to the lights and then plug a wall wart into the outlet. I could feed the 12V from the wall wart directly into my Stargate but I prefer to power a local Elk relay and have the dry contact closure go to the controller.

Why use these instead of 12V motion sensors?

Cheap
Easy to service/replace
Weatherized for outdoor use
Designed to compensate for outdoor temperatures

 

[cliffs]

I tried this on my previous house. What I ran into was that the animals
the prowled around at night tended to set them off. Also, you have to be sure that
the unit is not in the sun.

On a couple of my houses I used the Heath sensor to turn on the
driveway lights. They seemed to work fine, you just have to be
sure they are pointed down so that the passing cars don't trip them.
One nice feature was you could program the lights to come on at
sunset at 50% brightness for 3 hours or so.

I have also used the IR sensors to turn on patio lights. They are integrated
with the lamp sockets. The only problem I found was the lightning would
turn them on.

Cliff s

 

[deranged]

Well,

I have 3 of these on the outside of my house Crow motion sensor, they work well for me.
I can't say much for toddlers though, but the small ground animals, birds and etc do not trip the sensors.
The Deer and larger animals still do though.

There are others you can find, like here Outdoor motion sensors

For outdoor wireless sensors, like the end of my driveway and near my pool and shed. I use these Reporter Motion detector.

I have NO recommendations for these stores .

StevenE


Edit: Really screwed up that last sentence... Ugh...

 

[easytim]

Dakota Alert Wireless Motion Alert 3000

Transmits 3000 ft

I have been testing this for 6 months now, it works well. If you put it up high it does not see animals

http://www.safemart.com/index.asp?PageActi...WELAID=63025139

Green for Clean

[email protected]

Well,

I have 3 of these on the outside of my house Crow motion sensor, they work well for me.
I can't say much for toddlers though, but the small ground animals, birds and etc do not trip the sensors.
The Deer and larger animals still do though.

There are others you can find, like here Outdoor motion sensors

For outdoor wireless sensors, like the end of my driveway and near my pool and shed. I use these Reporter Motion detector.

I have recommendations for these stores those.

StevenE

 

[mmcalli]

>>Transmits 3000 ft
>>I have been testing this for 6 months now, it works well. If you put it up high it does not see animals

Happy to hear about the Dakota. Just ordered the receiver/transmitter to test with. Looking to interface the dry contact outputs through an I/O board (prefer USB) to a Premise system. Just haven't located the I/O board to use yet. I'll use the motion detection to activate some Lutron RadioRA switches that control outside pathway lighting (when it's dark) or they can manually turn on the switch. I'll just have them turn on for 90 seconds or so while the person walks up the walkway.

 

[kgingerich]

I'm in the same boat as Laurent looking for outdoor wireless motion sensors for use with my Elk M1XRF2G to trigger lights.

Would a SAW based outdoor motion sensor such as this work good enough for triggering outdoor lights? I know SAW is not recommended but would it work 75% of the time or better? I can't find a crytstal based wireless motion sensor for outdoors.

Thanks.

 

[lugnut]

I'm in the same boat as Laurent looking for outdoor wireless motion sensors...
Thanks.

The boat is getting crowded! I've also been looking at motions for outdoors (which might be different than "outdoor motions").

Outdoor motions (environmentally-hardened) are usually at least 2 times the cost of indoor motions. I have some cases where it's impossible that the motion detectors aren't going to get direct sun and rain. Also I'm in the hot southwest deserts and there are many days when the outdoor temperature is right around body temperature so I don't know how well a purely PIR motion will be able to discern motion in those cases anyway.


The dual technology "indoor" motions (PIR plus microwave) in some cases have problems with the microwaves being able to see through walls and detect motion in adjoining rooms. But that depends on the frequency used. Sentrol's dual-tech motions like the RCR-C are the first I've seen where they use the ability of microwaves to see through walls as a "feature" not a problem. They claim you can mount it in "stealth mode" behind a wall, aimed through the wall, and it will detect motion in the room it's aimed at, but no one can see that the detector is active.

I wonder how well you could do this with mounting an "indoor" microwave motion detector facing the outside wall, and detect outdoor motion though the outside wall. That way there is no issue with the outdoor environmental concerns, and it is a lower cost detector. But the performance is going to vary, depending on the microwave frequency and the construction materials in the outside wall,(among other things). The 10.8GHz microwave motions wouldn't have as much range through a given exterior wall as say a 2.4GHz microwave motion. Either way I don't know how much detection range they actually have.

Has anyone messd with this type of setup (indoor microwave motions pointed through the wall, toward the outside)? I'd be very interested to hear the results, or even any thoughts on doing this. It seems promising, but the experiments to figure which one to use could be quite costly also. If it worked well, it could be another valuable tool to add to the security toolbox for certain cases.

 

[upstatemike]

I have tried outdoor PIR motion sensors and found they only work at night. On a sunny day they tend to get false triggered by changing sun and shade patterns from passing clouds or wind blown branches. I thought about using microwave but they are very sensitive to wind load vibrations in the surface they are mounted on. I don't want to use a buried probe detector next to the driveway because it is an area of frequent digging and landscaping. I would be interested in what solution comes out of this discussion.

 

[kgingerich]

I have tried outdoor PIR motion sensors and found they only work at night. On a sunny day they tend to get false triggered by changing sun and shade patterns from passing clouds or wind blown branches. I thought about using microwave but they are very sensitive to wind load vibrations in the surface they are mounted on. I don't want to use a buried probe detector next to the driveway because it is an area of frequent digging and landscaping. I would be interested in what solution comes out of this discussion.

Just curious but how do the motion sensors on standard outdoor lights from home depot work then? I wonder what the difference is. Maybe being up high, typically under the soffit, and pointed down makes a difference.

 

[upstatemike]

I have tried outdoor PIR motion sensors and found they only work at night. On a sunny day they tend to get false triggered by changing sun and shade patterns from passing clouds or wind blown branches. I thought about using microwave but they are very sensitive to wind load vibrations in the surface they are mounted on. I don't want to use a buried probe detector next to the driveway because it is an area of frequent digging and landscaping. I would be interested in what solution comes out of this discussion.

Just curious but how do the motion sensors on standard outdoor lights from home depot work then? I wonder what the difference is. Maybe being up high, typically under the soffit, and pointed down makes a difference.

They have photosensors that disable them during the day. I expect if you force them to operate during the day that you will see the same issues with sun and shade false triggers.

 

[jstaab]

I realize this an old thread, but I found it regarding my search for an outdoor wireless motion sensor that would work with the M1XRF2G and I'm hoping my reply might help someone else when they perform the same search. The ONLY wireless motion sensor that I found was the GEC-60-639-95R-OD with is a SAW based motion sensor. I went ahead and took the gamble and tried it and it works just fine. I ran it inside the house and it triggered every time during my test. Upon moving it outside, I'm finding that it is extremely sensitive and its range of detection exceeds the specs. Two comments though. As one person pointed out, during the day, say a cloudy day, a change in brightness from say full sun, to partial sun would tend to trip it. I believe this is in part because the motion sensor is pointed at the driveway (concrete). The sensor actually came with a light filter that I inserted and the problem is now resolved, with no apparent loss in sensitivity. Another note on this sensor, while it is an outdoor sensor, it is not water proof, rather the directions state to mount it under an eave or something where it is somewhat protected. In my case, I simply mounted it under the eave of the house. Anyway, so far, so good. I plan on buying a few more. However, the real question, is there is distance between the sensor and the M1XRF2G where the SAW issues does come into play. Coincidently, the sensor and the M1XRF2G are only about 40 feet or so apart. Maybe I'm just lucky and the next person won't have similiar results, who knows. Hopefully this will help someone in their search.

 

[briankelly63]

I use...

http://www.smarthome.com/4082/Leviton-X10-...tor-6417/p.aspx

The leviton product is different from the x10 product in that it will continue to send its status as long as it detects motion... I don't recall if the M1 can directly see that status (prob not) but I use it for on off motion sensing and its very reliable, good sensitivity and adjustable.

Brian

 

[jstaab]

The problem that I had with the X10 version of these is that they only lasted a couple of years before they started sending spurious X10 traffic at random and the only way to fix it was to remove power to reset them. On top of that, the physical lens on the motion sensors started crack on all of mine as well, making them useless. The bottom line is, they all died between two and three years. With that said, I have also abandoned X10 all together and moved to UPB. Now, if someone would make a quality UPB version of these that would actually last, I'd buy them. In the mean time though, I do like the ability to have the motion sensors and the lights separated as it allows you to have both local and remote control of the lights. However, for now, the wireless sensor I mentioned seems to be working great and you can put them anywhere, no wires needed. I'll use a combination of wired and wireless for outdoors. I can string some wires to certain areas of my house via the attic, however, other places I can't get to (two story).

I use...

http://www.smarthome.com/4082/Leviton-X10-...tor-6417/p.aspx

The leviton product is different from the x10 product in that it will continue to send its status as long as it detects motion... I don't recall if the M1 can directly see that status (prob not) but I use it for on off motion sensing and its very reliable, good sensitivity and adjustable.

Brian

 

[signal15]

I'm using Bosch Blue Line Tritech sensors. They are *indoor* PIR/Microwave combo sensors. AO has them for around $40. But I use these things outdoors, and they work great. Here's what I do to weatherproof them:

- Disassemble unit and pop out the black box inside that contains the electronics
- Pop out the "windows" on the front, and the LED light pipe
- Use clear silicone caulk on the end of a toothpick, and scrape the silicone off the toothpick with the edge of where the "windows" go in the front panel. Do the same for the opening where the light pipe goes. You want a very THIN coating, or it will squeeze out onto the front of the windows
- Pop the windows and light pipe back in, let them dry.
- Buy some Crystals Cat Litter (or anything made of silica gel) and toss a small baggie with holes in the sensor before closing it up
- Near the weather stripping at Home Despot, I found a weatherproof clear tape. put a piece over the front screw latch, and run another one around the seam where the two halves of the case go together. You could caulk it, but I wanted to make it easy to open if I needed to.

The operating temp range is similar to outdoor units. I've only had a couple of false positives on REALLY hot days. But, I make sure I keep them out of direct sunlight, and try to mount them where the rain won't hit them. They are basically waterproofed, but I don't want to push my luck. I just bought a bunch of spares in case they stop making them.