upgrading from 'well water' to 'municipal water'

The watermeters.com mulitjet 3/4" with 1 gal/count pulse (dry contact) had been selling for $99. I think you need to contat them to find the model with 0.1 gal/count. I do not recall the sampling rate of the ocelot, but seems to me it was 1 second (could be 1 millisecond). I'm just making the point that you need to do the math to make certain the pulse rate from the high resolution meter will not be too fast for the unit with which you are sampling. I know the DS2423 1-wire has a max spec of 50Hz.
I contacted them, and they said 1 gallon per click is the best they can do. Model # he recommended for me was the DLJ7575C. I really was hoping for finer resolution, any other suggestions?

We use a "Badger" brand water meter at work that has a head that is detachable from the meter. The head has a screw off lid with some gears and a reed switch(I think) inside. It is possible to replace the head and the meter seperately. There is no shaft between the meter and the head, the head is magnetically driven. The one we use provides 10 ppg. As best I remember the gears determine if it will be 1 ppg or 10 ppg. Ours is connected as an input to a programmable logic controller. I suspect this unit would be more expensive than some other available options. I never was a real fan of the gear arrangement, I always felt that the gears being a mechanical moving part create a potential failure point although the magnetic drive is pretty clever. I don't know if other meters are set up in this way or not since this is the only type I ever used except for a much more expensive meter we used for awhile that was more electronic in nature. It was used for handling water that had a lot of sand particles in it.

Brian
 
I contacted them, and they said 1 gallon per click is the best they can do. Model # he recommended for me was the DLJ7575C. I really was hoping for finer resolution, any other suggestions?
I know someone has a 0.1 gal/click because I was asked to support this capability with xapmcs1wire. If you are lucky my may find it with a search of the Homeseer board in this area.
 
How about monitoring water quality as well as consumption? Everyone has been talking about high iron or other minerals, is there anything out there that is a simple install like the DLJ meters but also gives some type of serial output on quality reading?
 
I know the DS2423 1-wire has a max spec of 50Hz.
Worst case max rate on a DS2423 is 2000HZ.
Minimum pulse width = 1us
Maximum debounce is 460us.
Round up to 500us per pulse to make this easy.
1000000us / 500us = 2000.

I really was hoping for finer resolution, any other suggestions?
Try here
http://www.haysfluidcontrols.ca/hays_m_series_meters.htm
and here
http://www.seametrics.com/flow_meter/mjseriesspecs.html
No idea if they will sell 1 meter.

I have a Hays which can be reconfigured to higher pulse rates. This type of meter has a magnet wheel which is used in place of one of the dial indicators. To change the rate, you remove the cover, move the magnet to a different dial, and replace the cover with the pickup over the new magnet position.

I also have both a Hays and a Niagra meter which aren't field reconfigurable. It looks like the main shaft is tied to a separate gearing system in the head for the pulse sender.

Water meters typically aren't that accurate below 1gal minute, which is why you're having a harder time finding one.
hayesreg.JPG
As you can see from the curve (Hays MR series), the accuracy takes a nosedive at low rates.

The threads on a meter are typically IPS straight. Meters should come with tailpieces (couplings). The seal between the meter and the tailpiece is made by a washer, not the threads.

Note from Hays installation sheet:
Blue M Series meters use British pipe threads, which in general are incompatible with IPS threads. Blue M Series meters must be installed using the couplings provided with the meter.

There's a lot of different meters and options, so caveat emptor, particularly if you're buying on ebay because most people there don't have a clue about what they are selling.
 
I contacted them, and they said 1 gallon per click is the best they can do. Model # he recommended for me was the DLJ7575C
From http://www.jerman.com/dljcmeters.html "Special pulse rates are available on different style meters from over 1000 pulses per gallon to 10000 gallons per pulse. We offer pulsers on all our meters: C700, Turbine, Multi-Jet, Single Jet, Oil Meters, Hot Water Meters and others. We also offer high voltage (240) dry contact switches, low speed pulsers at 125 volt ac 3 amp, high speed pulsers, optical pulser switches, and other designs."

I know someone has a 0.1 gal/click because I was asked to support this capability with xapmcs1wire. If you are lucky my may find it with a search of the Homeseer board in this area.
From Homeseer message board http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=139623
"had the same problem with my homebrew water meter reader. The pulses came too fast for my ocelot to record. I built a divide by 10 counter"
"I actually want to have the fine resolution of 10 pulses per gallon. I want to accurately measure toilet flushes, dish washing, etc. My water meter outputs 10 pulses per gallon....My water meter (Omega FTB8007B) has the option to move the rotating magnet to to get 1 pulse per gallon if that is what I want."

I know the DS2423 1-wire has a max spec of 50Hz.
I concur that my memory was incorrect as sda posted. Eric had also pointed this out to me. Given a perfect interface circuit the DS2423 can handle 2000Hz rather than 50Hz. For practical use in measuring real-world behaviors the actual count rates will usually be lower than the data sheet specs. For example in the pulse water meter discussed from watermeters.com a reed switch is used and it has a mechanical bounce. Obviously you do not want the DS2423 to be counting as the reed switch output is ringing. The attached shows that reed switch will typically take 2 milliseconds to stabilize.
 

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Fortunately, the DS2423 has built in debounce circuitry. Here's some relevant notes from the spec sheet:

10) The counter inputs are designed for interfacing to mechanical switches and piezo sensors. If
interfacing to digital circuits, one should use an open drain driver.
11) A lower impedance pullup, e. g., for reed switches, can be achieved by connecting an external resistor
from the counter input to VBAT.
13) Each low-going edge on a counter input resets the channel’s debounce timer. The debounce time
starts as the input voltage rises beyond the trip point. In order for the next pulse to be counted the
debounce time must have expired.


From that homeseer post:
"had the same problem with my homebrew water meter reader. The pulses came too fast for my ocelot to record. I built a divide by 10 counter"
And that's why you should use an external dedicated counter, whether it be a DS2423 or something else. An external counter will monitor the input and count for you. The host only has to retrieve the current count.

Also:
"I actually want to have the fine resolution of 10 pulses per gallon. I want to accurately measure toilet flushes, dish washing, etc."

Sure, you can determine how much a toilet or a dishwasher uses in a controlled situation. You never flushed again before the tank was full to clear the floaters? Your dishwasher and washing machine have only one cycle and one water usage pattern? Even if you collect all the fixed types of water usage, you can't easily differentiate somebody turning on the shower then taking a whizz and flushing while the shower gets hot.

The only time a higher pulse rate might come in useful is for overall minor leak detection. Unless you have something that uses water all the time, like an RO filter, there should be some periods of no water draw. If you get some pulses during those periods, then you've got a leak. That doesn't tell you where the leak is, which could be as simple as a toilet flush valve or a dripping faucet or a bad sprinkler valve. Better to use water sensors in critical areas if you're that paranoid.

1PPG is more than enough to measure water consumption. I would monitor the counter once per minute. 1440 data points per day is more than enough.

10PPG is 12.8oz per pulse, about a glass of water. Too granular for consumption, not granular enough for useful minor leak detection.

100PPG is 1.28oz per pulse. Analysis would show if there's not an obvious water leak. That would be semi-regular pulses during times of expected inactivity. I would monitor the counter once per second, log the results at the 59 second mark and start again for the next minute. Assuming no other water usage, seeing a lone pulse on a regular interval, say every +/- 40 seconds, would indicate some sort of a consistent low grade leak.
 
Fortunately, the DS2423 has built in debounce circuitry.
The thrust of the discussion on this thread is how to interface a pulse water meter. The DS2423 is plenty adequte and other common devices such as the ocelot may or may not be.

The reed switch is one of the faster mechanical devices that can be interfaced. It can go at about 500Hz and has a second order ringing as contacts are made and broken. Its properties are such that ringing effects need to be considered at the interface. If the DS2423 is used then it does have some circuitry to deal with ringing pulse curations of up to 0.17 milliseconds.

If it is an ocelot or ELK then additional consideration may be needed depending upon how fast these units can process the data. Typical hardware design for input circuits provide a filter to pass only certain frequency inputs. It is likely that the ocleot/Elk have these design provisions and the ringing will not be a problem. It just depends upon the input circuit design. Even for the DS2423 the ringing posed by the reed switch may need some attention at the interface if adequate engineering margins need to be assured for all types of reed switches and all lots of counters. For hobby work the natural RC of the wiring to the counter will help provide a filter and a direct connection to a DS2423 will be fine.

When one does not have a hammer to pound the nail then they look elsewhere to drive that nail. If one is not setup to interface 1-wire devices then the DS2423 capabilities are somewhat mute. It is not unreasonalbe to assess the ability of an ocelot to be put into service as a pulse counter. It has a very deterministic processing cycle and it is dedicated to its periodic cycle program. The Z8 microcontroller in the Rain8 is used with good results in the Rain8 family as a pulse counter and its program is more variable than that of the ocelot.
 
This is an example of why I wanted the finer resolution, and it wouldn't trigger a leak detection sensor.

It sounds like 1 gallon per pulse + leak detection sensors is the most economical solution, I can't find many reviews on water meters which have better resolution, while everyone seems to like the DLJ7575C meter.
 
This is an example of why I wanted the finer resolution, and it wouldn't trigger a leak detection sensor.

It sounds like 1 gallon per pulse + leak detection sensors is the most economical solution, I can't find many reviews on water meters which have better resolution, while everyone seems to like the DLJ7575C meter.
But if you are graphing your usage this would have shown up with a 1 gallon meter. You could set up a notification (event for me) that checks to see if more than 10 gallons is used during the day if your home is unoccupied and notify you if this is the case.
 
But low flow leaks wouldn't be counted, right? Don't these meters require a minimum amount of flow before it registers water usage?
 
Attached is a picture of my setup with a HB Dual counter. I see 1-2 gallon counts when using a bathroon sink. Dan what types of low flow leaks are you looking for? Sprinkler lines, manifold, valves, heads?
 
Not too worried about sprinklers, as that shouldn't be hard to pick up. I am thinking of a toilet that keeps running, items like that.
 
Yes had one of those in the old house. You could always hear a bit of water flowing - it had to be very quiet though. Turned out to be the float valve in the tank and an easy fix.

I lived in an area where the water was metered but very low quarterly charges (always less than $20). With water costs were I am today it would be beneficial to have a bit more granularity than what I have today.
 
But low flow leaks wouldn't be counted, right? Don't these meters require a minimum amount of flow before it registers water usage?
Yeah, that's going to be an issue after all. I hooked up a Hays meter with a minimum flow spec of .25gpm. Ran a few gallons through it, first with a fast drip then with a trickle (about 6 minutes to fill a gallon paint can). No registration on the meter. Went to the city meter at the street and there's no registration there either.

Let's see ... If I can get 10gph from the city at no cost, that's 240 gallons per day, 7200 gallons per month. We average about 5K gallons/month in winter, 15K in summer. Last year we paid about a buck and change per 1K gallons, and its set to increase every year for the next several years - close to double by 2012. Think I'll look into a storage tank and pump to run my sprinklers ...
 
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