More INSTEON quality control issues!

[briankelly63]

I agree... I had at least 30% go bad and they just continue to expire as time goes by..... When you pay the kind of prices these switches go for I expect them to last a long time! That coupled with all the communication, noise and coupling issues you really start to think "is all this worth it"!

 

[briankelly63]

What brand of UPB are you using?

 

[BLH]

I took a spare [new to use but older still in box] SwitchLinc Dimmer out to do a few tests. It worked a few times then the dreaded dead paddle thing. Clicks but no action. OH well.

 

[Lagerhead]

The school of thought that a company should stand behind its products is often debated.

Ack! An astonishing statement. Exposes the SH culture.

I'll mention your experiences next time we talk about customer loyalty or product quality.

Yet more revealing. Attention to "customer loyalty" and "product quality" is sporadic, episodic... when they have a meeting about it.

 

[az1324]

Here is an example over a six month time span:

R1 open 27.84%
D3 shorted 23.71%
Triac burnt or shorted 20.27%
MOV burst 6.01%
Air gap failure 5.50%
Bad soldering 4.47%
Paddle issue 2.41%
Load Flutter 2.06%
Bad component 1.89%
C1 exploded 1.37%
Not available 1.37%
Bad LED 1.03%
P/S 0.86%
5V to ground 0.34%
Bad switch 0.52%
Wrong ID 0.34%

Hmm I wonder how that 6-month period was selected...

 

[icellama21]

I'm curious, why do people buy insteon products?

Yeah, they are a little cheaper. But there are clearly more-reliable competing products in UPB and Zwave/Zigbee(which has the added benefit of not being powerline). Insteon is a powerline technology, subject to all the annoyances, and it seems a pretty bad one too. On a typical 20-load install I would save $500 over using high-quality UPB or Zwave. Lighting automation is something you install to last for years, if not decades, kind of like appliances. Why skimp to save a bit up front? Just curious why people do it. Why not X10 if you want t to save money?

 

[Xpendable]

You can get 10% of Insteon products at Smarthome until the 24th.

So not only will they still sell products they know have a defect they will even put them on sale for you.

I'm not ready to buy any more Insteon product until I know they've fixed these issues, sale or no sale.

 

[wuench]

I'm curious, why do people buy insteon products?

Yeah, they are a little cheaper. But there are clearly more-reliable competing products in UPB and Zwave/Zigbee(which has the added benefit of not being powerline). Insteon is a powerline technology, subject to all the annoyances, and it seems a pretty bad one too. On a typical 20-load install I would save $500 over using high-quality UPB or Zwave. Lighting automation is something you install to last for years, if not decades, kind of like appliances. Why skimp to save a bit up front? Just curious why people do it. Why not X10 if you want t to save money?

My 12 insteon switches are old and work pretty well, I have replaced them all once for the flicker issue, and I still have Signallincs vs. access points. They may all have the paddle issue at some point, but I rarely touch the switches themselves. I have refused to buy more for a couple of years now trying to decide what to do next. The ISY solved a lot of my control issues, I was using a program I wrote myself to do all the linking because I didn't like the other options available. That program was a PITA to write, but it was simple and it worked, something SH could've easily written years ago. But there was no way I was going to release it and deal with the support issues involved. And also price does have a lot to do with it. There is a big difference between $50 and $150 per switch when you are talking about installing 50+ of them.

My reason for sticking with Insteon so far is the look of the switches and especially the keypads with the engraved buttons. But obviously that is not worth sticking with switches with issues. The UPB keypads are not attractive (IMHO) or don't provide lighted feedback (SA). And the recent threads about UPB noise has me concerned with powerline protocols in general.

I just don't like the looks of any of the cheaper ZWave switches. The ones I do like, like the Cooper ones, are really expensive. Plus I just don't understand all the ZWave issues, some provide feedback, some don't. Some seem to have proprietary enhancements, some don't. Vizia's have the stupid toggle press, like the old super cheap X10 switches. It's all too friggin' complicated for what is supposed to be one protocol. I still don't understand what I would be able to mix and match between vendors.

Jetstream looks good and is probably at the top of my list. But I would like to see where they are headed and if they intend to release more modules (specifically inline ones.). So far I have read mostly positive feedback, the one issue being that the single button switches can be a little hard to press physically.

So here I sit racked with indecision, and I am back to wait and see. When the time comes I will probably order a couple of switches and test it out, maybe even do that for several different technologies before I replace the Insteon switches and finish replacing the rest of the house.

 

[MikeB]

I'm curious, why do people buy insteon products?

Yeah, they are a little cheaper. But there are clearly more-reliable competing products in UPB and Zwave/Zigbee(which has the added benefit of not being powerline). Insteon is a powerline technology, subject to all the annoyances, and it seems a pretty bad one too. On a typical 20-load install I would save $500 over using high-quality UPB or Zwave. Lighting automation is something you install to last for years, if not decades, kind of like appliances. Why skimp to save a bit up front? Just curious why people do it. Why not X10 if you want t to save money?

I'll bite! I went with Insteon because the cost savings were significant with my 70+ device installation. I also like the flexibility that the devices offer, where everything links with everything, double-tap on/off, the look and customization of the keypads, etc. The variety of devices out there now (IR interfaces, motion sensors, I/O controllers, thermostats) opens up a variety of options, even if you don't have or want a central controller.

At the time of my initial install I checked out UPB and Zwave which I did not like for various reasons (I won't bore you).

Though I've had my share of problems in the 2+ years I've had Insteon, not nearly as much as some people have experienced - so I'm relatively happy with Insteon in my home. I've only had a few devices go bad, but have had to replace some devices due to firmware issues, etc. Powerline problems can be an annoyance, but I see my share of RF problems every day - so I'm not necessarily a fan of RF over powerline in every circumstance. Though I am in the middle of troubleshooting a powerline issue with one of my circuits, so I reserve the right to change my opinion.

I think the kicker is that when Insteon works well for you, it works great. Device response is "instant" (check out what people can do with Xpendable's LightShowMaster), the devices are good looking in my opinion, and the versatility of the protocol pretty much let's you do whatever you want (especially if you get a central controller like the ISY or PC-based PowerHome).

The problem is that Smarthome has had some reliability issues with hardware, and have released a lot of product with firmware problems that (in my opinion) should have been caught during QC testing. It's annoying to replace a plug-in module due to a firmware bug that should have been caught at the manufactuer, but it's unnacceptable to replace a wired-in module due to the same. The lack of upgradeable firmware makes the issue worse - it might not be so bad to have a few buggy firmware releases if users could flash back to an older firmware, or wait for a newer firmware, but as of right now devices need to be yanked out of the wall and replaced if you find a firmware bug that affects you.

I deal with buggy firmware every day on various types of devices in the IT world. But on a non-upgradeable light switch being installed in your wall, the hardware and firmware needs to be tested, tested, and tested (and tested) so it's bulletproof.

The rainbow always seems to be "just around the corner", because Smarthome WILL fix this issue and their customer support, in my experience, is great - they've always replaced defective devices for me without issue, and even pay return shipping. The problem is that another issue (hardware or firmware) always seem to creep up again in a future hardware/firmware revision and makes you wonder what experience you might have with the next batch.

I haven't personally experienced any of the newer firmware issues being reported, but I feel the pain of those who are experiencing them.

 

[upstatemike]

I'm curious, why do people buy insteon products?

Yeah, they are a little cheaper. But there are clearly more-reliable competing products in UPB and Zwave/Zigbee(which has the added benefit of not being powerline). Insteon is a powerline technology, subject to all the annoyances, and it seems a pretty bad one too. On a typical 20-load install I would save $500 over using high-quality UPB or Zwave. Lighting automation is something you install to last for years, if not decades, kind of like appliances. Why skimp to save a bit up front? Just curious why people do it. Why not X10 if you want t to save money?

I challenge your reference to a "typical 20-load install". On this board a "typical" install is probably closer to 200 loads and the cost difference closer to $5,000.

 

[WayneW]

I challenge your reference to a "typical 20-load install". On this board a "typical" install is probably closer to 200 loads and the cost difference closer to $5,000.

I challenge you to name 5 on this board who have 200 automated loads. Granted 20 loads is probably a little low for active CTers, but I have seen very few users claiming to have anywhere close to 200 Insteon, UPB, Z-wave or automated hardwired loads combined. I have asked you a million times not to exaggerate

 

[WayneW]

The rainbow always seems to be "just around the corner", because Smarthome WILL fix this issue and their customer support, in my experience, is great - they've always replaced defective devices for me without issue, and even pay return shipping.

SmartHome customer service is only helpful if you have a SmartHome invoice number. They give you the cold shoulder if you purchased elsewhere, such as Automated Outlet or Home Depot, even though the warranty is supposed to be handled by the manufacturer. So the costs of the warranty issues if purchased anyplace other than directly from SH are shared by the user and the reseller. Very hard for a reseller to make any profit when they have to take that kind of hit repeatedly.

 

[BLH]

Until Smarthome has a fix for my 10 HW 4.1 ApplianceLincs with I2. There will be no more purchases by me either. 10% and all.

Also they quietly change their Ground Deluxe shipping from FedEx only to their choice of UPS; FedEx or USPS. Well my last order was USPS and in my Rural Route delivery area and not being here at delivery. I had to take the deliver notice post card 10 miles to the Post Office that serves my route. Even though my preordered I/O Linc Invoice said FedEx Deluxe Ground I got USPS.

I have also been an early supporter of Insteon when members of the SDK actually counted and we where given information. Now unless you are an Active Developer. You get nothing.

 

[Xpendable]

I have also been an early supporter of Insteon when members of the SDK actually counted and we where given information. Now unless you are an Active Developer. You get nothing.

Actually, even if you are an active developer... you still get nothing. At least I have gotten nothing. Smarthome has not answered any of my questions. Smarthome has not provided me with any information on what is different from one firmware revision to another. Smarthome has not provided me with any heads up on any new products or any changes to existing products. I am left entirely to myself to discover that my software doesn't work anymore when Smarthome makes changes to hardware or firmware that make my software incompatible. I'm not even notified when changes occur! I have to find out the hard way when my customers complain. Smarthome has done a tremendous disservice to Insteon developers and customers alike.

 

[BLH]

Yes I have seen your requests [I still actually go there once a day for kicks ] and have seen you requests for help.