ingeborgdot
Member
I took a look at UPB and do understand they seem to be fairly reliable but the paddles and other pieces look archaic and kind of crappy looking. I like the look of the insteon stuff much better. Just my opinion.
More INSTEON quality control issues!
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GraysonPeddie
Active Member
Same for me.
Deane Johnson
Active Member
PeteC, interesting experiences you relate.
For testing purposes, I purchased a Leviton Vizia RF+ Z-Wave dimmer, and a couple of sets of those Intermatic controllers with lamp modules on closeout.
I put two lamp modules in service along with the Leviton Vizia RF+. One of the lamp modules crapped out the first night, the other is still functioning as is the Leviton dimmer. However, I now have a node in the mesh that doesn't work since I haven't figured out how to get it out. There is probably a way, but I sort of refuse to go to heroics over a burned out lamp module. After researching and thinking Z-Wave was the way to go, I'm getting ready to dump it. It's too touchy.
I'm planning to switch to UPB, at least on a test basis. It appears far more configurable and controllable. Z-Wave seems to be a nightmare, and if it gets messed up, you get to start over building your mesh network. No thanks.
The other thing that I got surprised at with Z-Wave was the limited control it offers compared to UPB. UPB seems far more capable of multiple variable fade rates, scenes and the like. Z-Wave seems to be a few steps behind X-10 in features, and that isn't good.
Insteon, which I won't even consider testing, certainly could be called an attractive nuisance. The price is low, the selection broad, and Smarthome has great visual presentation. But, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
Deane
For testing purposes, I purchased a Leviton Vizia RF+ Z-Wave dimmer, and a couple of sets of those Intermatic controllers with lamp modules on closeout.
I put two lamp modules in service along with the Leviton Vizia RF+. One of the lamp modules crapped out the first night, the other is still functioning as is the Leviton dimmer. However, I now have a node in the mesh that doesn't work since I haven't figured out how to get it out. There is probably a way, but I sort of refuse to go to heroics over a burned out lamp module. After researching and thinking Z-Wave was the way to go, I'm getting ready to dump it. It's too touchy.
I'm planning to switch to UPB, at least on a test basis. It appears far more configurable and controllable. Z-Wave seems to be a nightmare, and if it gets messed up, you get to start over building your mesh network. No thanks.
The other thing that I got surprised at with Z-Wave was the limited control it offers compared to UPB. UPB seems far more capable of multiple variable fade rates, scenes and the like. Z-Wave seems to be a few steps behind X-10 in features, and that isn't good.
Insteon, which I won't even consider testing, certainly could be called an attractive nuisance. The price is low, the selection broad, and Smarthome has great visual presentation. But, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
Deane
I've had a medium-size Insteon installation with ISY for a few years now. I've never had a device fail outright, but once I started trying to do complicated multi-device scenes with the ISY, I started noticing unreliable execution of commands. This was ultimately traced to problems with the v.35 firmware on switches. Smarthome just replaced all of them, even a bunch I bought from Automated Outlet, but I had to be insistent and talk to many support reps over several days. I had to prepay like HeyYou did. When they arrived, I discovered that they had sent out the wrong model. I called and they sent the right ones, and that time it was a "no charge" order. I just got done replacing all the switches, and execution is near perfect now.
Two of the switches I got had oversized and/or unthreaded holes for mounting the switchplates, so I'll be sending them back for replacement. So I'd say they still are having some problems with construction, problems with handling orders correctly, and many problems with firmware. Related to this is the fact that they have recently sold a lot of "half-baked" products that were really only useful in the second version, like the Smartlinc and the thermostat adapter. They never issue full refunds in that case; more like 75% credit on a new one. Even then, in the case of the v2 thermostat adapter, you had to buy a new one at full price and you got a $80 credit you could only use on a subsequent purchase. Lame.
My final issue is that the firmware revs can be out of whack for different products. I can dim the LED on my replacement Togglelinc relays, but not the replacement dimmers. Makes one of each in a two gang box look a little goofy.
I got most of my switches for ~$35, which is one of the reasons I'm not more upset.
-Tom
Two of the switches I got had oversized and/or unthreaded holes for mounting the switchplates, so I'll be sending them back for replacement. So I'd say they still are having some problems with construction, problems with handling orders correctly, and many problems with firmware. Related to this is the fact that they have recently sold a lot of "half-baked" products that were really only useful in the second version, like the Smartlinc and the thermostat adapter. They never issue full refunds in that case; more like 75% credit on a new one. Even then, in the case of the v2 thermostat adapter, you had to buy a new one at full price and you got a $80 credit you could only use on a subsequent purchase. Lame.
My final issue is that the firmware revs can be out of whack for different products. I can dim the LED on my replacement Togglelinc relays, but not the replacement dimmers. Makes one of each in a two gang box look a little goofy.
I got most of my switches for ~$35, which is one of the reasons I'm not more upset.
-Tom
Lagerhead
Active Member
Amen.
And again, amen.
Out of respect for Dan, the CT proprietor and moderator, I will refrain from flaming SH further, even though they have fully earned it, and earned their reputation for slick marketing, shoddy products, and indifferent support.
Smarthome, not one dime, ever again.
pete_c
Guru
Yes UPB is a bit archaic looking but I'm a bit archaic looking too. I like the simple one LED change color look. In addition I already feel like I am in a large microwave oven with various RF frequencies bouncing around my home. Being a bit antiquated and old fashioned I wanted just pure powerline versus a hybrid mesh of RF and powerline.
Today my Insteon have the multiple LEDs running down the side of the paddle - too many LEDs for me; initially it was nice to get a visual of the dimming status but nows its kind of worn off.
Deane, here are some pics of a flash and burn of the Z-Wave module. It was behind a couch and the flames did extend out of the module from what I could see. It could have caused a major issue.
Today my Insteon have the multiple LEDs running down the side of the paddle - too many LEDs for me; initially it was nice to get a visual of the dimming status but nows its kind of worn off.
Deane, here are some pics of a flash and burn of the Z-Wave module. It was behind a couch and the flames did extend out of the module from what I could see. It could have caused a major issue.
Deane Johnson
Active Member
Pete, that's a scary photo. I think I'll unplug the one I have still plugged in.
I was sort of surprised and disappointed at Z-Wave's limitations, and complexity. I hadn't read much negative about it on the various forums, and I wanted off the power lines after wrestling with X-10 for years, so I warmed up to Z-Wave. Now, I've reconsidered. X-10 was enough of a pain in the rear, I don't need something else that touchy to keep working like Z-Wave appears to be.
UPB is looking better, but I need to invest a couple of hundred and try it for a while. I'll probably try PCS Pulseworx dimmers as my experience with PCS is that they make darn good stuff. If it disappoints, I'm not sure which way to go.
Deane
I was sort of surprised and disappointed at Z-Wave's limitations, and complexity. I hadn't read much negative about it on the various forums, and I wanted off the power lines after wrestling with X-10 for years, so I warmed up to Z-Wave. Now, I've reconsidered. X-10 was enough of a pain in the rear, I don't need something else that touchy to keep working like Z-Wave appears to be.
UPB is looking better, but I need to invest a couple of hundred and try it for a while. I'll probably try PCS Pulseworx dimmers as my experience with PCS is that they make darn good stuff. If it disappoints, I'm not sure which way to go.
Deane
pete_c
Guru
I have 4 other Z-Wave lamp modules which I have left plugged in. They have been working fine after a few months. All of these are connected to both my OPII panel and my HS HA server. The Z-Wave is only plugged into the OPII panel
I recently purchased three PCS dimmers and installed them. Very nice construction. I am currently also playing with HAI and SA.
I recently purchased three PCS dimmers and installed them. Very nice construction. I am currently also playing with HAI and SA.
I've just started putting in an installed network of Insteon in my home (new house) -- previously I used a lot of it in a plug-in, constantly reconfiguring way. I've had good luck overall. My only recent issue was a switch paddle that did not work properly (not the electronics, which were fine, but the replaceable plastic paddle itself); Smarthome replaced it at no charge and without question (sent me a 2-pack in fact). When I called they even checked to make sure it wasn't a bad switch, bringing up the old issue themselves, so I think the attitude has also improved.
I think Smarthome has addressed the software/firmware issues. They are still updating more frequently than I think other manufacturers, but that's good and bad. The bad is you may not have the latest. The good is the latest is better. How does that compare to a device that never gets updated? E.g. on old SwitchLincs you couldn't change the LED brightness. Now you can. I would like them to be more open about changes and for that matter with development information, but I haven't seen much to indicate anyone else is open about those things either. Enough has gotten out that I can write my own code.
From what I see, the one thing Smarthome does not do very well is software for managing the whole system. The Smartlinc isn't bad, but it is very limited. The ISY (not by Smarthome) seems like a better choice.
The other issue is that it is a powerline system, so you do have to be aware about powerline communication issues. It's a million times better than X10, and the addition of the new dual-band devices (dual-band PLM, LampLinc, and soon SwitchLinc) which serve as RF repeaters/bridges is also helping. From what I see, purely radio systems like Z-wave have their own issues, so the choice here is powerline issues, radio issues, or pull a ton of Cat5 and pay a premium. There's no perfect option.
I think Smarthome has addressed the software/firmware issues. They are still updating more frequently than I think other manufacturers, but that's good and bad. The bad is you may not have the latest. The good is the latest is better. How does that compare to a device that never gets updated? E.g. on old SwitchLincs you couldn't change the LED brightness. Now you can. I would like them to be more open about changes and for that matter with development information, but I haven't seen much to indicate anyone else is open about those things either. Enough has gotten out that I can write my own code.
From what I see, the one thing Smarthome does not do very well is software for managing the whole system. The Smartlinc isn't bad, but it is very limited. The ISY (not by Smarthome) seems like a better choice.
The other issue is that it is a powerline system, so you do have to be aware about powerline communication issues. It's a million times better than X10, and the addition of the new dual-band devices (dual-band PLM, LampLinc, and soon SwitchLinc) which serve as RF repeaters/bridges is also helping. From what I see, purely radio systems like Z-wave have their own issues, so the choice here is powerline issues, radio issues, or pull a ton of Cat5 and pay a premium. There's no perfect option.
nick_l
Member
I'm attempting to become a less critical, less negative person, so all I will say is RUN. Run far, run fast.
ingeborgdot
Member
I did run. I ran right to insteon and have never had a problem. Sure I had 3 switches out of 35 replaced but that was 3 years ago. You can have your opinion now but I have mine. There may have been problems, I am not denying that. I have had none to speak of.
nick_l
Member
Congratulations. However, I was not directing my response to you. It was directed to the person who asked about insteon. You gave your opinion, I gave mine. Not sure why you felt the need to come back into the conversation, but shall i come back with all of my DOCUMENTED insteon failures? because, believe me, I can blow your three failures away!! I can make him so afraid he'll be too scared to whisper the insteon name out loud.
As an aside, are you sure you don't work for smarthome. You say, in one small paragraph, that you have had three failures. Then, you say "I ran right to Insteon and have never had a problem." Then "There may have been problems, I am not denying that. I have had none to speak of." Which was it? Acknowledging and then denying an issue screams of damage control to me.
HeyYou,
As you can tell, this is a very HOT topic. I would suggest you try what you purchased, and see if it works for you. There are plenty of people who are very happy with INSTEON, while every technology will have users who ran into major issues. SH's initial response to some of the issues was disappointing, but it looks like they are at least trying to rectify some of these issues.
I'd like to ask everyone to keep things relaxed, and relevant to HeyYou's original question. Since he already read all of the INSTEON posts, there is no need to rehash the old. I definitely don't want to see this thread turn into a flamewar, as I would be forced to close it (and I REALLY hate doing that).
As you can tell, this is a very HOT topic. I would suggest you try what you purchased, and see if it works for you. There are plenty of people who are very happy with INSTEON, while every technology will have users who ran into major issues. SH's initial response to some of the issues was disappointing, but it looks like they are at least trying to rectify some of these issues.
I'd like to ask everyone to keep things relaxed, and relevant to HeyYou's original question. Since he already read all of the INSTEON posts, there is no need to rehash the old. I definitely don't want to see this thread turn into a flamewar, as I would be forced to close it (and I REALLY hate doing that).
ingeborgdot
Member
Are you just a flipping fruit cake. 3 switches going bad is not a problem. I have had tons of electronics go bad with high quality stuff. It just happens. Don't you dare tell me that this other stuff you love so deeply does not have failures. Insteon has had their issues. They have corrected the vast majority of them. I like them, you don't. I have a right to answer anything I want to just like you just came back and told me a thing or two. I like insteon 
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