Measuring electricity

[Rupp]

The Energy Detective is one product that will do it, and can be automated/monitored. http://www.theenergydetective.com/index.html

Otherwise search for submetering.

Does anyone know if this has split core sensors for installing on the power lines?

Also any word on an available protocal to use HS/CQQ/Girder plugins?

John

Yes these are slipt core. One warning though. This system has proven to cause X10 communication problems.
http://www.theenergydetective.com/store/accessories/ct.html

There will be a plugin for HomeSeer as soon as the API is released.

 

[mdonovan]

There will be a plugin for HomeSeer as soon as the API is released.

Rupp, did the TED co say an API would be released? I had emailed them a while back about this but they never bothered to respond.

Matt

 

[Ranger Digital]

Rich, my purpose is to simply determine how much of the electric bill is being used by one particular building that doesnt have its own SEPERATE meter.

 

[Rupp]

There will be a plugin for HomeSeer as soon as the API is released.

Rupp, did the TED co say an API would be released? I had emailed them a while back about this but they never bothered to respond.

Matt

Matt,
I've experienced the same from this company so this may be an early warning. They haven't responded since Christmas. The last response was yes they were putting together and SDK.

 

[WayneW]

TED has a pretty easy way to export data from their database straight into Excel, with readings every second if desired. They blast it straight into Excel, they don't save it as a csv file first. If someone wants to try and reverse engineer the TED database so data could be extracted automatically, I could supply a database file. Based on the configuration options, it appears to be a round robin database with every second accuracy for a while, then every minute, then every hour. I am having some issues with my TED where the logging service can no longer communicate with the hardware via USB, which then requires the PC to be rebooted. TED took 3 years to release the PC logging version that they kept claiming was coming "next quarter", so I don't know how quick they will release the API. But one weakness of the TED system is that the logging is done by the PC, so any interruptions in the communication or the logging (such as rebooting the PC or USB issues or powerline noise) results in loss of data. I would prefer something like the OneMeter that is a stand-alone (more reliable) logger.


The Brand Electronics OneMeter appears to have an open RS232 protocol and can measure multiple channels, so you could measure total load and individual circuits also.
http://www.brandelectronics.com/onemeter.html

Here is some pricing info I have from 2005:
Base price $250
Each single phase channel $100
Each split phase channel $150 (channels can be 100-250 vac)
Internet Option $100, first 30 days free, $10/month.

Here is a post about it from the HomeSeer board from 2005:
***************
Being impatient to wait for TED and guess if it comes with pc interface, I have ordered and installed OneMeter product from brandelectronics.com. The meter was $400 for the whole house, plus I ordered an extra channel to monitor my dryer. It was relatively easy to install, one drawback being that the "data module" box is rather large, so it had to be installed outside of the panel. The module connects via cat5 cable to a display unit that shows amps, volts, watts and total energy used. The display in turn connects to a PC and can be polled via very simple protocol. I use the latest version of mcsTemperature to graph the power rate, and I also get notified when the dryer cycle has finished. Expensive, but works.
***************

 

[felixrosbergen]

I talked to WattNode last week about a project that I am doing. I was told that in 3 months they were releasing a new version of the WattNode that had a regular RS-485 connection. The price was going to be close to $300.00 . So I am going to wait until this version is out, and then get it.

Hope this helps.


Steve

Sounds like a plan..the wattnode seems to give the most info and a straight RS-485 interface should make it pretty easy to integrate with anything right?

 

[ckindt]

I talked to WattNode last week about a project that I am doing. I was told that in 3 months they were releasing a new version of the WattNode that had a regular RS-485 connection. The price was going to be close to $300.00 . So I am going to wait until this version is out, and then get it.

Hope this helps.


Steve

... RS-485 interface should make it pretty easy to integrate with anything right?

For the LonWorks version:
The electrical standard (rs-485) doesn't have much relavance to ease of integration, having the correct drivers available to poll the device does.
What do you plan on integrating it with? The device is packed with useful information, but the software is more than the power meter - $995 and ~$500 for device. Maybe you already have something to poll the device with???

Pulse output:
Even if you opt for the pulse output, you still need an appropriate counter meter to display the value, like the one on the web page for $140 or $170. The wattnode is cheaper at around $200 compared to ~$500 for the LonWorks version.

 

[Michael McSharry]

The Wattnode pulse output is very easy to connect to a DS2423 32 bit counter and a 1-wire interface. The counter is battery backed-up so should the PC go down the data is not lost. I do not know what a RS-485 interface will get you vs. what is available today.

 

[DavidL]

There are splitcore inductors that we have plugged into an analog WeederTech board to detect energy usage w/ MainLobby. If I can find the link, I'll post it.

 

[felixrosbergen]

Hi All,

please excuse my ignorance on this...but it seems that Wattnode can provide a wealth of information on the power situation in your house. It would be great to actually be able to view all that in either HomeSeer, CQC or similar.

Micheal writes above that the wattnode is easy to connection to a bitcounter..i assume this would only give me the singel variable reading (e.g. power consumption). Is this correct? If investing in such a device it would like to be able to see the voltage and amps and well. This would allow me to see with much greater detail the effect of turning on/off certain devices in the house.

If wattnode provides a RS-485 interface wouldnt they also provide a drives and other explanation on how to communicate with the device that should allow the great minds here at CT to integrate it into our HA software?

 

[WayneW]

There are splitcore inductors that we have plugged into an analog WeederTech board to detect energy usage w/ MainLobby. If I can find the link, I'll post it.

I suspect this gives you a simple current reading, rather than a true energy reading. A simple current reading will give relative information over time, but doesn't give true information about motor/compressor usage and won't match your power company meter.

 

[ckindt]

Hi All,

please excuse my ignorance on this...but it seems that Wattnode can provide a wealth of information on the power situation in your house. It would be great to actually be able to view all that in either HomeSeer, CQC or similar.

Micheal writes above that the wattnode is easy to connection to a bitcounter..i assume this would only give me the singel variable reading (e.g. power consumption). Is this correct? If investing in such a device it would like to be able to see the voltage and amps and well. This would allow me to see with much greater detail the effect of turning on/off certain devices in the house.

If wattnode provides a RS-485 interface wouldnt they also provide a drives and other explanation on how to communicate with the device that should allow the great minds here at CT to integrate it into our HA software?

It is easy to connect the pulse output version to a meter, but you sacrifice information that the network version has -that's why it's more money. I know what you're getting at, but just because the information is there doesn't mean it is exposed without paying for the software. If you want wattnode's packaged software it'll cost you and additional $995. Or you can always write your own driver since the protocol and addresses are published in their manual. Of course you'll need some other I/O software that will poll the wattnode with the driver you wrote or acquired from somewhere else.
Remember - rs-485 is just an electrical standard, not a protocol. Simply, it means the device can exist on a daisy-chain of other nodes up to 32 with one master. (there are exceptions)

 

[keepersg]

Here is the scenario. Two buildings. One meter. Each building has its own main 200 amp service box. The monthly bill of course only shows total for both buildings as there is only one meter. Is there a way to determine how much power ONE buildings uses? Maybe something I can add to one of the main power boxes that registers something? Doesnt have to be automated as I dont mind reading at the box. Later I may want to automated though because, well, you know, it feeds the addiction.

I am assuming YES as anything is possible these days. Especially with the help of cocooners, LOL.

Any ideas?

Sorry to come in late on this. I use products from Davidge Controls http://www.ezmeter.com/news.html to do this. I monitor the apartment in our house which is on a separate panel and generate a bill each month. They make a variety of metering and monitoring options. Everything from a mechanical pulse counter to a serial or powerline interface communication system which your computer can read and generate a bill--they provide the software for this. It was all reasonably priced when I bought it a year ago.

 

[ckindt]

Here is the scenario. Two buildings. One meter. Each building has its own main 200 amp service box. The monthly bill of course only shows total for both buildings as there is only one meter. Is there a way to determine how much power ONE buildings uses? Maybe something I can add to one of the main power boxes that registers something? Doesnt have to be automated as I dont mind reading at the box. Later I may want to automated though because, well, you know, it feeds the addiction.

I am assuming YES as anything is possible these days. Especially with the help of cocooners, LOL.

Any ideas?

Sorry to come in late on this. I use products from Davidge Controls http://www.ezmeter.com/news.html to do this. I monitor the apartment in our house which is on a separate panel and generate a bill each month. They make a variety of metering and monitoring options. Everything from a mechanical pulse counter to a serial or powerline interface communication system which your computer can read and generate a bill--they provide the software for this. It was all reasonably priced when I bought it a year ago.

Apologies not necessary.
This doesn't look any different from the wattnode. I only saw pulse output meters on the website at similar prices as wattnode.

Please note I don't endorse either...I just endorse the facts.

 

[ckindt]

Regarding the pulse output. I copied this excerpt from page 25/26 of the manual from wattnode. The pulse output are typical open collectors. There is some knowledge required to hook these up.

The total kWh is a simple function of counting the pulses.
The instantaneous kW is a calculation based on the frequency of pulses. This is not a total. If you count the pulses you'll get some ever accumulation number of non-sense until your meter's buffer fills and resets to 0 and does it again.


Personally I like the networked variety, there is more information to be had and is arguably easier to work with. The only caveat is cost and protocol computability with existing devices if using off the shelf I/O server software.


##########

Scale Factor Equations
Using the “Watt-hours per pulse” WHpP value from the table above for your WattNode model and current
transformer, you can compute energy and power as follows:
●● PulseCount - This is the count of pulses, used to compute energy. You can use the count of pulses over
specified periods of time (like a month) to measure the energy for that period of time.
●● PulseFreq - This is the measured pulse frequency (Hertz) out of the WattNode. This can also be computed
by counting the number of pulses in a fixed period of time and then dividing by the number of
seconds in that time period. For example, if you count 720 pulses in five minutes (300 seconds), then
PulseFreq = 720 / 300 = 2.40 Hz.
Energy (watt-hours) = WHpP · PulseCount
Power (watts) = WHpP · 3600 · PulseFreq
To convert these values to kilowatt-hours and kilowatts, divide by 1000.
26 Operating Instructions
Using the “Pulses Per kilowatt-hour” PpKWH value from the table above for your WattNode model and
current transformer, you can compute energy and power as follows (multiply by 1000 to convert kilowatts to
watts):
Energy (kilowatt-hours) = PulseCount / PpKWH
Power (kilowatts) = 3600 · PulseFreq / PpKWH


##########