M1 to control sprinklers

I've been reading some of the topics on this subject and I just want to make sure I have this right before I place an order.

I have a 9 zone sprinkler setup here and my current controller is about shot. So I want to use my M1 as a replacement for it.

From what I've gathered it looks like I'm going to need a Output expander, ELKM1XOVR, to do this. Can I get all 9 zone on the board? or will I have to use another? I've seen where some people use the M1RB as well that would give me a visual LED that the zone is on correct?

I have a 24V supply for the previous controller so I have that covered.

Am I on the right track here?

Thanks!

<Matt

Minman said:

I've been reading some of the topics on this subject and I just want to make sure I have this right before I place an order.

I have a 9 zone sprinkler setup here and my current controller is about shot. So I want to use my M1 as a replacement for it.

From what I've gathered it looks like I'm going to need a Output expander, ELKM1XOVR, to do this. Can I get all 9 zone on the board? or will I have to use another? I've seen where some people use the M1RB as well that would give me a visual LED that the zone is on correct?

Am I on the right track here?

Thanks!

<Matt

Click to expand...

I'm setting mine up this weekend if my XOVR gets here on time. I have a seven zone system, so the XOVR alone will provide the seven relays for my seven zone valves and a spare relay for my main valve.


You will need either an M1RB board ( with an additional eight relays ) or a couple of individual relays to get your up to your total needed of nine (maybe ten if you have a main valve).

Basically, you'll need a relay for each valve you want to open. So the M1RB is to provide relays for those extra valves you need to control.

Of course, I haven't done it yet so you might want to wait until someone who has done it posts.

Minman said:

I'm setting mine up this weekend if my XOVR gets here on time. I have a seven zone system, so the XOVR alone will provide the seven relays for my seven zone valves and a spare relay for my main valve.


You will need either an M1RB board ( with an additional eight relays ) or a couple of individual relays to get your up to your total needed of nine (maybe ten if you have a main valve).

Basically, you'll need a relay for each valve you want to open. So the M1RB is to provide relays for those extra valves you need to control.

Of course, I haven't done it yet so you might want to wait until someone who has done it posts.

Click to expand...

That is exactly how I did it. I have 8 lawn zones a drip zone and garden zone all controlled by 1 M1XOVR and 1 M1RB.

The M1XOVR also has LEDs on it but they are the surface mount type so not as obvious.

You should check out this blog account of someone controlling irrigation with an Elk if you haven't seen it yet.

I have 28 sprinkler zones driven by the elk. I started with 912B's and then switched to the m1xovr to switch 24V to the valves. Wiring with the m1xovr is a breeze.

I might have done it differently if I had to do it again. I'd have used the Elk924 relay, and connected the second set of dry contacts to a zone input - that would have given me a confirmation that the relay was actually turned on.

I started scheduling twice a week, but have recently tried using the Evaporation and transporation (ET) data from the CIMIS web site to determine how much moisture I've lost since the last watering. I have CQC as well. The Elk has some real limitations in that the number of custom settings is limited to 20, and you can't do any math on data stored in them. Counters are fine for math, but they are not sticky, so if you reset the Elk, all that data is lost. Also, the way Elk updates their counters, you can't currently read them in CQC.

Can someone explain why one would use the Rain8net product over controlling the sprinklers directly as discussed above?

I had not thought of connecting the sprinkler valves directly until reading this thread, and now curious what factors would help to make that determination.

drvnbysound said:

Can someone explain why one would use the Rain8net product over controlling the sprinklers directly as discussed above?

Click to expand...

Note that their is nothing wrong with controlling your sprinkler systems with the Elk via relays and such and there are many posts and schematics here on CocoonTech that show how to do this in detail; but, one feature that the WGL Designs products have is an internal timer in their controllers which act as a fail safe off in case the controller looses contact with whatever system is controlling it (PC, etc...).

For instance, a lot of people will use an Elk relay expander board (mounted in their garage which is a good distance from the Elk controller) to control their sprinkler valves. If that expansion board would loose connectivity with the Elk somehow while a valve is on, there would be no way to turn it off. A WGL Designs product on the other hand has an emergency count down timer inside the controller which will shut down the valve after a user entered time has elapsed.

Is this an important feature? Well, that depends on the user.

Also, I believe some of their products have the 24 VAC power interface built internal to their unit (via their AC adapter).

Anyway, I'm not sure if I answered your question correctly with the above info.

Thanks for the replys. I've placed an order for the 1XOVR and a M1RB. I'm going to try it through the Elk and see if I like the setup.

I have a Rain8Net and while I like the concept I had a lot of issues with the computers that would talk to it. I've had three different PC connected to it and I can't get any of them to last longer than a few months. My last laptop lost connectivity to it after a week and It hasn't been able to talk to it again. I'm thinking the unit itself has gone out, which led me to try running the system through the Elk.

Minman said:

Thanks for the replys. I've placed an order for the 1XOVR and a M1RB. I'm going to try it through the Elk and see if I like the setup.

I have a Rain8Net and while I like the concept I had a lot of issues with the computers that would talk to it. I've had three different PC connected to it and I can't get any of them to last longer than a few months. My last laptop lost connectivity to it after a week and It hasn't been able to talk to it again. I'm thinking the unit itself has gone out, which led me to try running the system through the Elk.

Click to expand...

I had rain8's, UPB and serial. The three UPB's were a disaster. They failed if there was too much upb traffic on the line. The one serial appeared to work OK.
You need to enclose them in a box as they are NOT waterproof. The other disadvantage is that you need a pc running all the time to drive them. mscsolutions makes a great program to drive them.

BraveSirRobbin said:

For instance, a lot of people will use an Elk relay expander board (mounted in their garage which is a good distance from the Elk controller) to control their sprinkler valves. If that expansion board would loose connectivity with the Elk somehow while a valve is on, there would be no way to turn it off. A WGL Designs product on the other hand has an emergency count down timer inside the controller which will shut down the valve after a user entered time has elapsed.

Is this an important feature? Well, that depends on the user.

Click to expand...

Nothing against the WGL for those that don't have an Elk, but BSR's scenario sounds manageable to me and I intend to do it. I figure, if the relay expander board loses communication with the M1 (ie cut cable), then it will probably also lose power also. If the relay board loses power, then it should put all the relays back to the normal position, which should be all valves = off. Now, if your relay expander is remotely powered, then there is the theoretical situation of the relay expander keeping the relay on indefinitely, but you would get a trouble alert from the M1 about the missing expander. I thought that Elk put watchdogs in all their data-bus products, so even if the relay expander lost communication with the M1, but still had power to energize relays, after a couple minutes (guessing) the relay expander would reboot, which should turn the relays off.

I'vce had my sprinkler wires thru an M1RB for almost 4 years now and have not had any problems. I have a weatherproof box outside where the old timer and valve wires were which I now just use as a junction box and 24V injector. My RB is in the main can and I just have wire between the main can and the box outside. The fail safe on a Rain8 is nice but how reliable is it really? I can see if there is a loss of comm, but what if the board just dies or something. It's probably no different than an M1 w/RB at that point so the only real advantage then would be if there is a cable issue and you lose comm. I would not anticipate any normal cable/wire failure on it own, so I think the M1 route is pretty reliable and has proven as such to me. You just need to be careful with rules so that you don't have mutiple valves on at the same time, etc.

comet said:

I have 28 sprinkler zones driven by the elk. I started with 912B's and then switched to the m1xovr to switch 24V to the valves. Wiring with the m1xovr is a breeze.

I might have done it differently if I had to do it again. I'd have used the Elk924 relay, and connected the second set of dry contacts to a zone input - that would have given me a confirmation that the relay was actually turned on.

Click to expand...

If I have only 4 zones, is there any point going with a M1XOVR instead of a simple M1RB? You've said something about switching 24VAC to the valves, but I fail to see the relevance as it pertains to the M1XOVR over the M1RB. Sure, the solenoids need this 24V, but can't the M1RB take care of this?

for only 4 zones the M1RB hooked to the onboard voltage-only outputs should do what you want. However, it's nice to have all that wiring outside instead.

I have a 10 zone system and when I bought the house, the timer was dying... so I ran an M1XOVR and M1RB into the 14" Elk can that came with the system out in the garage - and used the extra relays to remotely drive the strobe, garage doors, and soon the pool fill. I had bought the 28" flush-mount can so I already had the 14" sitting extra. It's nice being able to run all that stuff in the garage with only a CAT5 back to the elk's location inside the house.

I suppose the failure could happen where it gets stuck open, but like others said - hopefully the problem would result in a reset of the board or loss of power, either of which should set the relay back to its closed state. Worst case, I may get a really green lawn!

I've been very happy with the solution. In fact, I've taken advantage of being able to run multiple zones to lower the pressure and let the zones run longer - less wind effect blowing my water into the curb and it can run longer to allow for slower absorption. I also let it self adjust so it's always watering a set amount of time before sunrise.

I have a script so certain "spray heads" will not turn on if it's to windy. I also keep a log file of the times the zones are turned on (in case I want to make adjustments or just remind myself how often I'm watering areas).

I've always wanted to look into moisture sensors so you are watering based (or at least influencing) on this reading instead of raw time.

I also have a front lawn "hot button" beside my front yard camera so when owners let their dog on my lawn and I happen to see this in the camera I can immediately hit that button (sinister yes; but, it's a lot of fun! ).

BraveSirRobbin said:

I have a script so certain "spray heads" will not turn on if it's to windy. I also keep a log file of the times the zones are turned on (in case I want to make adjustments or just remind myself how often I'm watering areas).

I've always wanted to look into moisture sensors so you are watering based (or at least influencing) on this reading instead of raw time.

I also have a front lawn "hot button" beside my front yard camera so when owners let their dog on my lawn and I happen to see this in the camera I can immediately hit that button (sinister yes; but, it's a lot of fun! ).

Click to expand...

How do you get the wind data into cqc?