Should Smoke Detectors Be in their own Area on an M1?

[upstatemike]

I am reworking user codes on my M1 to make sure nobody has more authorizations than they are supposed to. What is best practice for Fire Alarm reset codes? I want those to be be posted someplace so anybody can deal with smoke detector false alarms in my absence but obviously don't want to post codes that can arm/disarm security zones. Should the Fire Zones be in their own area so the code that is used for fire functions is isolated from everything else? 

 

[mikefamig]

There is one problem that I see with doing that. If you do have more than one security area and you put the smokes in their own area you will logically disconnect the smokes from their respective security areas. How will you know which area is on fire?
 
It seems like it would work if you have only one security area.

 

[upstatemike]

Basically what I want to get to is this:
 
1 Security area. Only I have a code to disarm. I have a second burner code that I can give out in an emergency for single use. If I ever use it I immediately change it so it cannot be used again.
 
1 Fire area with a common code that is prominently posted so alarm silence and reset can be handled by anyone in the case of a false alarm when I am not around.
 
2 or more Access Door areas where individual codes and one time burner codes are used to allow entry to certain doors during certain hours. Normally these doors will not grant access to alarmed areas so nobody needs to have alarm disarm codes.

 

[mikefamig]

Basically what I want to get to is this:
 
1 Security area. Only I have a code to disarm. I have a second burner code that I can give out in an emergency for single use. If I ever use it I immediately change it so it cannot be used again.

This one is simple, just have two users with unique user codes.
 

1 Fire area with a common code that is prominently posted so alarm silence and reset can be handled by anyone in the case of a false alarm when I am not around.

See my post above here
 
 

2 or more Access Door areas where individual codes and one time burner codes are used to allow entry to certain doors during certain hours. Normally these doors will not grant access to alarmed areas so nobody needs to have alarm disarm codes.

I don't understand this one. Do you intend these doors to normally be disarmed and armed at certain hours of the day? That would simply be a matter of arming and disarming the area using rules 
 

 
Mike.

EDIT

As to the idea of burner codes I would create a dozen or so users with unique codes.

Then you can rotate through them and not have to keep removing and adding users or user codes. I think that you could set up tasks that will enable and disable users via Ekeypad or other remote access.

 

[upstatemike]

Not sure I understand your second point... Are you saying I can make a user code that only has the authority to silence/reset fire but not disarm security within the security area? I did not see any authorization checkboxes that seemed to match that. Only way I could think to do it was a user with regular arm/disarm authorization in a separate area dedicated to fire so the code could not be used to disarm security.
 
I also don't want users to use their access or security arm/disarm codes (if they have one) in fire alarm situations where the urgency of the moment might result in the code being overheard or observed. A dedicated fire alarm user/code that is known to all seems the best way to control this.
 
Best would be if there was a way through programming to avoid the code and just create dedicated fire silence and fire reset buttons from a couple of the spare function keys but I couldn't figure out a way to do that either.

 

[mikefamig]

Not sure I understand your second point... Are you saying I can make a user code that only has the authority to silence/reset fire but not disarm security within the security area? I did not see any authorization checkboxes that seemed to match that. Only way I could think to do it was a user with regular arm/disarm authorization in a separate area dedicated to fire so the code could not be used to disarm security.

No I don't know of a separate code to arm and disarm only fire. I like your idea of putting the fire zones in a separate area. That should be fine in your case where they are all in the same physical area (your house). In this situation you know that the fire is in your house regardless of which fire detector alarmed.
 
If one fire detector was in your house and another in a detached garage and you put them together in an area of their own you would not know which building was on fire in the case of an alarm. The voice message would just tell you that there was a fire in the area that your detectors are in.
 
Mike.
 

I also don't want users to use their access or security arm/disarm codes (if they have one) in fire alarm situations where the urgency of the moment might result in the code being overheard or observed. A dedicated fire alarm user/code that is known to all seems the best way to control this.
 
Best would be if there was a way through programming to avoid the code and just create dedicated fire silence and fire reset buttons from a couple of the spare function keys but I couldn't figure out a way to do that either.

 

[RAL]

Fire zones can only be assigned to Area 1.   So you'd have to put everything else in a different area, including they keypads (unless you wanted to temporarily change the keypad to an alternate area every time you wanted to arm/disarm, etc).
 
It's not clear to me that to silence a fire alarm, you would need to enter a user code from a keypad assigned to Area 1.  If that's the case, then you'd have to first change a keypad to alternate area 1 before you could silence the alarm.  Or, you'd need a keypad somewhere that is permanently assigned to Area 1. 
 
I think Mike is on the right track with disabling the arm/disarm capability for the special user code.   You can create a user code that has no authority to arm/disarm/bypass and I don't think that will restrict that code from silencing an alarm or doing a Smoke Reset, since those are not the same type of actions as arm/disarm.  I haven't tried this out to see if that's the case, however.

 

[mikefamig]

If you do experiment with this stuff please do report back to us what you learn.
 
Mike.

 

[mikefamig]

Fire zones can only be assigned to Area 1.   So you'd have to put everything else in a different area, including they keypads (unless you wanted to temporarily change the keypad to an alternate area every time you wanted to arm/disarm, etc).

Are you sure of this? I have Elk wireless smokes in my house on area 1 and Honeywell wireless rate-of-rise heat detectors in the detached garage Area2. The area2 heat detectors are defined as 10-fire alarm Type 5 fire.
 
Mike

EDIT - I should add that I have never tested the garage heat detectors.

 

[upstatemike]

Good point about the keypads. I forgot that , unlike users, a keypad can only be assigned to one area (obvious once I stop to think).
 
Not sure about Fire zones only in Area 1? All of my 4-wire smokes are on the first expansion board, (slot 5 after skipping expansion slots reserved for wireless) so zones 65-68 for 4 floors. I just set zone 65 to area 2 and gave it a zone type of 10 for fire alarm and it saved OK (did not connect and sync to panel for this test). Is this not going to work?
 
In any case I will do a test (but not tonight) with a user in area 1 with no arm/disarm/bypass authority and see if it can reset a fire alarm.

 

[mikefamig]

I use the keypad that is assigned to area 1 to arm and disarm area2 using an F-key. It is at my back door of the house. A second F-key is used to open the garage overhead door and I can  disarm the garage and open the door as I leave the house for the garage.
 
Mike.

 

[RAL]

Are you sure of this? I have Elk wireless smokes in my house on area 1 and GE wireless rate-of-rise heat detectors in the detached garage Area2. The area2 heat detectors are defined as 10-fire alarm Type 5 fire.
 
Mike

EDIT - I should add that I have never tested the garage heat detectors.

 
I've never tried to assign a smoke or heat detector to an area other than area 1.  But at the bottom of page 31 of the M1 installation manual, where it defines the Area setting, it says "A zone can only reside in one area and fire zones can only reside in Area 1."
 
It's not clear at all what would happen if you assigned it to a different area.

 

[mikefamig]

Thanks RAL and boy am I glad that we had this conversation! I will have to see what I can learn about this from Elk. I thought that I was done messing around with my system but I guess not.
 
Mike.

 

[mikefamig]

So what do you do if you don't want your garage to burn down?
 
No, I'm jut kidding. I'm pretty sure that I can just assign the heat detectors in area2 to area1. I'm happy as long as the alarm makes a lot of noise when they over-heat. I also can have a text message sent that tell sme which detector caused the alarm.
 
Mike.

 

[mikefamig]

I've never tried to assign a smoke or heat detector to an area other than area 1.  But at the bottom of page 31 of the M1 installation manual, where it defines the Area setting, it says "A zone can only reside in one area and fire zones can only reside in Area 1."
 
It's not clear at all what would happen if you assigned it to a different area.

 
I posed this question to Elk and this was their reply:
 
"For a UL Listed Installation all Smoke Detectors must be assigned to Area 1."

 
Mike.