Recommendations needed for Termination

[felixrosbergen]

Hi All,

Soon I will need to start terminating the various wiring in the new construction home.

The first order of business is to get the alarm system going so the wife feels safe when i am not home.

For this I have:
- about 15 door/window contacts (all wires with solud 22/4, but only 2 wires used)
- 2 motions (wired with 22/4, all 4 wires used)
- Indoor siren (wired with 22/4)
- Outdoor Siren/Strobe (2 runs of 22/4)
- 3 keypads (each wired with cat5).

I woudl like to terminate this all in one place since i might be playing around in the cans quite a bit changing configurations.

From what i understand 110 blocks will take the 22 gauge wire and i could use that to crossconenct to the wires going to the actual ELK panel and inptu extender.

Are all 110 blocks equal? There seem to be some variant with special connectors/plugs for other thing.

Can somebody recommend a certain model / type and place to buy for such a block along with whatever i need to get it working (any clips for example).

From what i understand all ELK zones use the same NEG, so i could cross connect them at the 110 block (threading a 22 gauage wires through the blocks) so i don't need as many wires running into my can. Doing this woudl i then run 4 zones over a 22/4 cable between the 110 block and the ELK unit? For 16 zones i would then just run 5 22/'s between the 110 block and the ELK (4 x 4 zones plus 1 cable for the NEG and V+AUX and V-AUX to suppor the motions.

Can the RS485 bus based keypads be cross connected through a 110 block or am i asking for trouble here?

I really don't know much about 110 block and don't really knwo what to get here...any words of advice woudl be greatly appreciated.

What is a good tools for testing Cat5 connections/terminations? Seems like the testing kits are about $170...is that normal?

This thing http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16899261015 looks pretty interesting.

 

[wuench]

Hi All,

Soon I will need to start terminating the various wiring in the new construction home.

The first order of business is to get the alarm system going so the wife feels safe when i am not home.

For this I have:
- about 15 door/window contacts (all wires with solud 22/4, but only 2 wires used)
- 2 motions (wired with 22/4, all 4 wires used)
- Indoor siren (wired with 22/4)
- Outdoor Siren/Strobe (2 runs of 22/4)
- 3 keypads (each wired with cat5).

I woudl like to terminate this all in one place since i might be playing around in the cans quite a bit changing configurations.

From what i understand 110 blocks will take the 22 gauge wire and i could use that to crossconenct to the wires going to the actual ELK panel and inptu extender.

Are all 110 blocks equal? There seem to be some variant with special connectors/plugs for other thing.

Can somebody recommend a certain model / type and place to buy for such a block along with whatever i need to get it working (any clips for example).

From what i understand all ELK zones use the same NEG, so i could cross connect them at the 110 block (threading a 22 gauage wires through the blocks) so i don't need as many wires running into my can. Doing this woudl i then run 4 zones over a 22/4 cable between the 110 block and the ELK unit? For 16 zones i would then just run 5 22/'s between the 110 block and the ELK (4 x 4 zones plus 1 cable for the NEG and V+AUX and V-AUX to suppor the motions.

Can the RS485 bus based keypads be cross connected through a 110 block or am i asking for trouble here?

I really don't know much about 110 block and don't really knwo what to get here...any words of advice woudl be greatly appreciated.

What is a good tools for testing Cat5 connections/terminations? Seems like the testing kits are about $170...is that normal?

This thing http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16899261015 looks pretty interesting.

You should not need to spend $170 on a cable tester just to check your terminations. You really only need one that will do a wiremap test to verify everything is in the correct order in the connector which is the most common issue. The more expensive testers do wire certification and check for a lot of other issues, which most people don't even look at and I wouldn't worry about for residential use.

You can also use a 2 PC's or a PC and a router/switch to test the cable. Do a file transfer and if you see NIC/Physical errors you have an issue. That's just as good as certification, since all you are going to do is re-terminate or replace the cable if you have issues anyway. You don't need detailed info on why the cable is bad, just if the cable is bad.

 

[tmbrown97]

RS485 through a 110 block shouldn't cause any issues...

For testers, that one looks cool, but you can easily get them from Sears, Fry's or Home Depot for under $50 called Residential Wire testers... and most do cat5, telephone and coax. Those test for crossed or broken pairs and are all that's practical. For anything more, you have to spend over $1K for one that can test noise and tolerances.

110 blocks are fun to work with - I personally think they are the cleanest looking - just know that while what's punched down on top is easy to change and move, what's punched underneath is nearly impossible to change - those clips just don't like to come off. Whereas 66 is easier to change around if desired. Get a good punch-down tool, and expect to spend about $100. Some come with one tip that has 66 on one side and 110 on the other - both cutting ends... avoid that. Get one tip for 66 and one tip for 110 - one end will cut, one won't - and for looping wires, you don't want it cutting.

A good place to buy is TWAComm - www.twacomm.com - I've used a lot of Leviton and Siemon stuff - they are great - can't speak to the rest. Some only come with the clips for 5-pairs (like on a 25-pair), some come with the 4-pair for Cat5 - some come with both. You'll probably prefer the 4-pair clips. Some come pre-wired to an amphenol - I don't think that's what you want. Something like this: http://www.twacomm.com/catalog/model_41AB2...2941378712EBF9D - and you can get wire managers to mount above and/or below if desired as well.

The looping of the ground sounds good in concept - depends on how you actually wire the panel - if you're also going to loop into each ground there. I know each contact runs a little voltage through, so you wouldn't want to overcurrent anything - but it shouldn't take long to see if that works or not. Easy enough to fix if necessary.

 

[felixrosbergen]

HI todd,

Can you give me a quick runthorugh of hwo this would work...i'm not sure what is the 'underneath' contactors are.

I hope the purpose is clear. I want to termiante all 'field' wiring of the alarm system on something and then have connector wires to the actual alarm panel.

Woudl the 'field' wiring go 'below' and then on the top i can run little jumper wires to cross connect?

What is the difference between C4 and C5?

Do the clips essentially crossconnect in a straight way so that i don't have to run 'jumnper' wires? For 8 wires of a cat5 run for a keypad it woudl be nice to have an 8 prong clip. Ofcourse this would mean the left and right side of the wiring would have to line up.

Maybe i'm completely of on the wrong track here. I'm sure i will figure it out once i see it, but i'd like to buy the right thing so i don't have to return anything.

The Amphenol connectors i don't think i need since i think this is to take all the terminated wires and then connect them to a PBX or something right?

Do you think i need wire managers?

 

[tmbrown97]

ok - the 110 blocks have the source pair patched down, then you put the C4 or C5 clip on that - and secure it in place. That locks the field wiring in place to where it's basically hard to change... then you put the C4 or C5 clips on, and cross connect on those. With 110, there really aren't standard shorting clips you can use to do the cross connection. Basically field wiring on the bottom, then you'd run a direct pair off the top into zone in the M1.

C4/C5 is the number of pairs. If you're punching down a 25-pair, you actually have 5 colors - the normal orange, green, blue, brown - plus a gray pair. If you're punching down Cat5 that screws up your alignment - normally 1 clip per strand of Cat5... so you pick what's appropriate so the colors line up.

66 may be the better choice for what you're doing... Those have 4 horizontal rows of clips - the left 2 are connected, and the right two are connected. So in that scenario, you'd connect all your field wires to the left most terminal, and your alarm panel to the right-most panel - and if they all lined up, you can use metal bridging clips to make the direct connection for you. That, and if you have to rearrange wires on either end, it's easy enough to do.

Amphenol you definitely don't need - that's for plugging an entire 25-pair into a PBX or patch panel.

Wire managers - with 66 block often times you just use those white mushroom things with a screw in the middle and route your wires around them.

I can probably take a picture or two tomorrow to illustrate the differences if that would help... I think I have some of each at home.

 

[felixrosbergen]

ok...quite a bit more clear now for me i think...

I guess for door and windows sensors i can get 4 per C4 clip right?

I would be punching down 22/2, 22/4 and cat5, does this mean every 5th pair essentially gets unused?

So unless i want to connect field wiring to field wiring then i wouldn't be cross connecting the tops of the 2 rows but rather putting the wires to the elk right into the C4 clip which then goes on top of the field wiring right?

I'm still a bit confused why there is a such a thing as a 5 pair and why the block all comes in multiples of 25.

 

[tmbrown97]

ok, I had a whole response typed out, but I'm gonna try to start over.

There's two schools of thought in wiring (independent of the block style you choose). I'll use the 110 block as the primary example... So, you have all this field wiring that needs to be terminated. How you arrange it on the panel is up to you, but rather than try to keep each location together, i'd keep each type of wire together. All the motion sensors, then all the contact sensors, then all the keypads, etc - because each group will be going to a different place on the panel - that'll keep the wires from criss-crossing as badly.

Now - you can do one of two things. Either way, you'll want all of your field wiring on the underneath row of the 110 block. The options from the panel are what's different. You can either pull each contact off the panel to its own 110 block then cross-connect between the two 110 blocks to make the connection, or you can go straight off the M1 to the top row of the field wiring. This is more common in phone systems where you break all the lines off the phone system onto one block, and all your lines from the telco off the other, then you just tie them all together with either cross-connect wire or if they line up well enough, bridging clips (66 only).
~~~~
With 110 blocks, to add some clarity... normally you lay down the "permanent" wires - the ones that won't change - first. In this case, your field wiring. When you punch them down, you're actually laying them into a plastic tray and trimming the excess - there's no metal contacts there yet so they're not making contact with anything. Then, you take your C4 or C5 clip and push that on top - no special tools - just use your punchdown - firmly seat it about 3/4's to one side and give it a good tap or two with your palm - then move to the other side and do the same till it's flush. These clips perforate the wire below and extend to the top, so now you can connect something to the top terminal to make a connection.

The difference between C4 and C5 is the number of pairs. When working with Cat5, you always have the blue/orange/green/brown - so you'd use the C4 clips to keep each batch or run of Cat5 even. In telco, which is where these blocks originated, it's way more common to work with multiples of 25-pair. They follow a similar convention, in that you have the blue/orange/green/brown pairs, but have a 5th color - gray. Then the way you tell the groupings apart is that the white stripe changes color, so set 1 is white, set 2 is red stripe, set 3 is black, set 4 is yellow, set 5 is violet. Add all those up, and it's a 25 pair. That even keeps going as you get up to 100 pairs... they're bundled into 5 pairs, those are bundled into 25 pairs... then each 25-pair starts getting a different color string, etc - so if you know the sequence, you can punch down 100 pairs without needing a guide. For your purposes though, that doesn't really matter more than to the extent that you should keep your Cat5 on the right color bindings, but otherwise it doesn't matter. Also, some of the better 110 block packages come with both C4 and C5 clips so you can mix & match if so desired.
~~~~
So - in your case, here's what I would personally do...

Take all your field wiring and line it up on a Cat6 110 panel (intended for the larger 22 gauge). Start with the Cat5 runs for the keypad so they'll line up nicely using the C4 clips. Then proceed to the motions and 4-wire sensors, then to the 2 wire sensors... including punching down any pairs that are run but not used if you think there's a snowball's chance they ever will be used. Get those in place (plan it a little if you want to arrange the clips a little bit) - then get all the clips in place using the method above. This should have all your field wiring looking very nice on a cross connect panel. You can close up the little covers that hide the wires underneath and label everything nicely.

Now, for the M1... I'd scrap the idea of worrying about running 22/4, 22/2, etc - into the panel. I'd either buy some cross-connect, which is just a single pair of wire in a spool, or better yet, take a length of Cat5 and strip out the pairs (just strip enough to get to the string, then pull 20 ft. or so - now you have 20ft. of each color) . I'd also scrap the shared common concept since that's not how they're punched down in the 110 block anyway... Line up some of the wire management mushrooms so you can pull the wires around something that keeps them looking nice and gives you something to route around... then start connecting a pair into the M1 (say Zone 1), and run it around the mushrooms, and pull down into your 110 block, and punch down, cutting off the excess. Now you take that excess and hook into the next zone and do the same thing, and keep going 'till they're all done.

If you use Cat 5, you can even use different colors for different things - like orange for power for the motions and glass-breaks, blue for doors, green for windows and brown for motions... or use one of those for smokes, or whatever... With your wires on a 110 block, if you need to combine multiple powers for motions, you either run a separate run for each from the M1, or switch to the non-cutting end of the punchdown tool, and punch onto the nearest one, then just keep a nice small loop and go down the line in an over-under pattern. For contacts though, I wouldn't bother - there's no good point. For keypads off a data bus hub, I'd use Cat5 with an RJ45 end to keep the wires together, then break out of the sheath right at the 110 where you punch it down.

That would make for a really clean installation - with the only thing in question really being the speakers - you'd want better gauge for those than what Cat5 provides - i'd be pretty tempted to use some type of screw-terminal setup. I can't find a picture too easily, but I'm thinking 2 strips - one for positive and one for negative, and run all the Output 1 speakers to it, with one wire connecting into the M1... and maybe a 2-terminal strip like This: for Output 2 since that's generally just a single speaker - just to handle larger wires, and help with the distribution of the speakers.

Hope that's clear enough... Are you actually in the house doing the wiring now, or still pre-planning? Either way, let me know where else you need clarification.

 

[tmbrown97]

also, i think I explained 110 blocks well above... on 66 blocks, they work in vertical columns (I'm thinking like Excel spreadsheets now)... You'd wire all your stuff in Column 1, one wire each row... Columns 1 and 2 are connected, and columns 3 and 4 are connected - column 1 doesn't go all the way across (unless you buy that type of block - they are available). In some perfect world scenarios, you can line up all your field wiring down the first column, and all your M1 wiring down the 4th column directly across - then use a metal bridge clip which connects columns 2 and 3, essentially bridging column one all the way to column 4. This cuts down on cross connect wiring if you're taking everything to a punch down then cross-connecting.

 

[TCassio]

As far a 66 blocks go, be care full. They come in several different flavors. If you only need termination with 2 connections that are common (connected together behind the block), then you would want the 66-150 blocks. If you need more than two common connection termination points the 66-b125 will give you 4 termination points that are common.

Example:

66-150
<<|>>
12 34 -- 1&2 are common. 3&4 are common. 1&2 are seperate from 3&4

66-125
< >>>
1 234 -- 1,2,3 &4 are all common

NOTE: < > represents termination connectors on the block.
If maintaining CAT5 standards are important, make sure you get CAT5 66 blocks as they come as non CAT5 (cheaper) also.

Also Cross connection wire is available in 1, 2 or 3 pairs.

 

[felixrosbergen]

Wow.. Todd, your explanation actually helped a lot. I'm still about 1.5 months out from taking ownership of the house, but I will be leaving on a business trip shorly aftwer we move in and then we're on vacation after that so i want the alarm working ASAP. For this purpose i'm getting the M1 and support componennts early and will benchtest/setup before we move in.

Some follow up questions:
- You mentioned just pulling the wires out of a stretch of cat5 to give me some lenghts of wire to run between the M1 and the 110 block. For the sensors (2 wires for doors/windows and 4 for motions) would i use 4 of the same color wire? Is there any convention or is it whatever i think will work for me? Do i just end up with a large bundle of loose wires between the 110 block and the M1? Guess i can put it in harness of some kind.

- Based on you description if i lay down the field wiring 'below' and put the wiring from the M1 'on top' rather than putting the wiring from the M1 'below' on the 'opposite side' and the making cross connectecs 'between the tops' i would get 2 full rows of terminations right? If i have 3 keypads (possibly expanded to 4 in the future), 15 door/window sensors, 3 sirens (with strobe and tamper) would i just add them all up as pairs (4 pairs for each keypad, 1 pair for each door/window, 2 pair for each motion, 3 pair for each siren/strone/tamper combo)? When advertised for say '50' pairs, is that a 100 punchdown location on each side or 50 on each side?

For the ELK speakers I'll think i'll stick to the 110 punchdown, whole house audio is completely separate.

Thanks for the Cat6 punchdown suggesiton since it will take the larger wire.

Sound like a definetely need 4 clips to keep any sort of regular patters going (1 clip for each keypad, 1 clip for each 2 motions and 1 clip for each 4 door/window sensors), C5's woudl get me in a bad mess i think.

Thanks for your patience in explaining, hopefully others will find this usefull as well. When i start to work on it I'll take picture so that others can have a more illustrated thread to read.

 

[tmbrown97]

No problem... This is fun for me. If I had a demo-set, I'd have put one up just to show what I'm talking about. I'm thinking kinda like a telecom closet with this.

Of course you could put the M1 contacts on one block, and the field wiring on another, and cross connect... I just honestly don't see the point. If you needed to move something around, it's a pretty short run.

On a single 110 block, it's two 25 pair rows... so that's basically 50 field connections (100 total punch-down points). and yeah - I'd do as you describe... just line up the sensors and go across the row - keypads first probably, then maybe motions - then to the 2-wire stuff like contact sensors. C4's do make more sense.

And for color conventions, if there's a standard, I certainly don't know it - I was just thinking like blue for door/window, orange for motion power, green for motion and brown for smokes, or something along those lines... I don't think it matters. When doing something like this in telecom, you basically start on one end and pull with a slight amount of tension around some routing mushrooms, right onto your 110 block, and as you punch it down, it cuts the excess. That keeps things pretty neat and clean - but of course you could also throw some velcro tape around it or something.

 

[felixrosbergen]

Hi Todd,

I'm looking at up to 4 keypads (4*4 pairs = 16 pairs), 15 or so door/window (15 pairs), 4 motions (4 * 2 pairs = 8 pairs), 2 or 3 combos of outside siren/strobe/tampers (3*3 pair = 9 pair).

Seems to make a total of 48 pairs...this is unfortunate since i now have to decide to either put it all on one knowing i may end up short in the future or get 2 blocks and know i have plenty of space.

The nice thing about 2 block would be that leypads could get their own row, motions could get their own row, door/windows their own row, output (sirens/strobes and any future liek irrigations) could get their own row and still have expansion capability.

Would a combo of "LE-41AB6-1F4 eXtreme6+ 110-Style Wiring Block Wallmount with Legs, CAT6, 96 Pair" with 2 of "LE-69104-IDC eXtreme6+ C-4 Clips - Bag of 10" from http://cableorganizer.com/leviton/extreme6...ing-blocks.html do the trick? It seems that block is a combined unit of 2 blocks.

The legs will allow for better management of wires underneath right?

Since my Cat5/6 for LAN and Coax are all planned to be terminated onto 19" wall mount panels i'm tempted to get the "LE-41DR6-2F4 eXtreme6+ 110-Style Wiring Block Rackmount with Legs, CAT6, 192 Pair" instead, but i think i will resist the urge since the wall mount rack hinges to access the back and i don't like the idea of all these tiny wires around these hinges.

The wall mount rack i'm looking at is the Middle Atlantic Hinged Panel Mount http://www.hometech.com/hts/products/racks...ount/index.html

For the connections betweent the 110 block and the M1 i like the idea of just stripping the wires out of a cat5, but due to the wire gauge shouldnt i use cat6 instead?

Would you recommend a 110 block inside the can with the M1 or would you just mount it on the particle board nearby the can in the wiring room?

Thanks for all your help so far...the 110 mystery is starting to clear up now...

 

[Photon]

Todd is giving you good advice, but there are a couple items I’d like to comment on:

1. Do not underestimate how hard it is to make any change that requires removing a C-4 clip. I mess around with 110-blocks every day, and I cannot reliably remove a C-4 clip. I’ve damaged the underlying structure of the 110-block and/or the C-4 clip almost every time. I’d feel badly about this, but I asked the contractor who pulls our LVDS wiring, and he said he has the same problem. I’ve then just moved the station cables from down under to a new location and installed new C-4 clips, but it doesn’t do much for the aesthetics of the patch panel. I vastly prefer making or changing cross-connects on a field of 110 blocks compared to 66-blocks, but I chose 66-blocks for my home Elk installation because they are so easy to make changes to the sensor cables and other field cables which would be difficult to move with 110-blocks. I also find it easier to use my meter probes in the “pickle forks” of the 66-blocks than on 110-blocks. Finally, the clips that connect columns 2 and 3 of the 66-block are easily removed and replaced for troubleshooting. As an example of the change issue, If you terminate all your keypads in one area and then all your speakers in the next area, it begins to get messy when you add another keypad. It would be much easier to move the speakers down in order to keep the keypads together with 66-blocks, if that is a goal.

2. Consider not using any male RJ-45 plugs that you would install yourself. For example, you mention terminating keypad cables onto a 110-block. If you intend to use an Elk Data Bus Hub, consider terminating the cables from the keypads (or any RS-485 bus cables) onto a keystone-type connector and using manufactured patch cables to get to the hub. As the wiring to my keypads, M1XRF, and other modules is not exactly T568B compliant, I terminated them in keystone jacks in a surface mount box to keep the non-standard wiring off my voice/data patch panel. If for no other reason, it allows you to use solid-wire cable from the sensors, keypads, speakers, etc, and then use pre-manufactured patch cables using stranded wiring to make the cross-connections. Some would argue it is more reliable to have a single cable run from the device to the central wiring hub with no plugs and jacks to cause problems. The offices I support were wired that way for voice and data 15 years ago, but all have subsequently been recabled using female RJ45 keystones at the desk end with a stranded patch cables to the PCs and phones. The other end terminates in the wiring closet on either 110-blocks or patch panels in relay racks depending on the office. I can't think of any case where we field-install male RJ-45 plugs any more. I believe this industry-standard method is easier to work on and is much more reliable.

Good luck, and have fun. . . . . John

 

[tmbrown97]

Understandable dilemna - though it's unlikely you'll be adding any new doors or windows, I could see adding motions, maybe a keypad, and maybe even doing something like I did where I ran a Cat5 to the garage and put another 14" cabinet in there with the M1XOVR and M1RB to control my irrigation, pool fill and garage doors as well as the strobe... so there's nothing wrong with having a little free space and spreading out a little.

My one concern is that the 22 gauge is too small for the outdoor speakers and possibly the interior speaker and strobe (depends on if you use a bunch of SP12's or 1 or 2 of the single larger speakers). Also, if doing the SP12's behind each KP2, that adds an extra pair per keypad.

As far as the 110 block, yeah - that one looks pretty good - has the wall mount legs and it says under the features that it includes the C4 clips so you shouldn't need to spend the extra $20. Use the legs - that gives you a nice standoff from the wall... You could use the rackmount if you wanted - the hinged thing isn't a big deal if you route your wires right - just route them all to the hinged side and manage them in a way that they have the necessary slack. The hinges won't hurt anything - but the wall mount is probably simpler. And I'd either put it on the wall next to it or move the M1 down the box and put it in there... but thinking about it, I'd probably put it outside cause that goes along with your flexibility for the future concept... I've once had to cut a cabinet out from around my wires to change and it wasn't fun (and the cabinet was trash) - if you just had to run new wires into the cabinet, it wouldn't take more than an hour or two.

As far as cat5 vs. cat6, the block takes 22-24 gauge, so that doesn't matter (especially for contact sensors, keypads, etc) - but by all means, if it's Cat6 you have handy, go for it. The larger gauge is better for things like speakers and strobes.

Also, keep in mind - the strobe and single siren (if you go siren vs. speaker) is about all you can get out of the M1 stock - you'll need to add additional power/relays to support additional sets of strobes and sirens.

 

[tmbrown97]

Photon got in there while I was being long winded. I think we covered pretty well the permanence of the 110 blocks - I can't get one apart either... That is a good point on the test-points... either option works just fine - The 66 blocks do give more flexibility but take up considerably more space. Most advice still stands if you wanted to use 66 blocks, except that I'd put the field wiring on the left and the M1 wiring on the right and use bridging clips - so you'd basically need 2 66 blocks to meet today's needs, and you could add a third in the future or even plan ahead and leave spaces in between.

In regards to the male RJ45's... the one thing to note is that the DBH wiring is T568A not the more common T568B, meaning the green and orange wires swap. I did end up just putting ends on my keypad and other DBH wires and it worked just fine (preference I guess). I also didn't use cross connects either, since I don't have room (this is in my master bedroom closet). For your case it's totally a matter of preference - either will work. Personally I'd put the keypads on a termination block, then on the other end I would still make a cable that's exposed wires to be punched down on one end, and an RJ45 male end on the other - but I've made thousands of these ends in my day and never have issues... plus if there was an issue it's easy enough to replace. As photon said, nobody does this in an office/lan environment anymore, but you'll often see it around phone systems that take their lines in through RJ11 or RJ45 jacks (vs. a cleaner amphenol or even digital lines).