Component or HDMI for new construction

[jms5180]

I plan on wiring myself. I was planning on running 3 component and 3 Cat5 to each TV location. I figure I will most likely use component for my video source (I mean how many sources do I actually use that are 1080p). If I want to use HDMI in the future can I use the cat5 for this? Not sure where to go with this. Thanks,

Jordan

 

[wuench]

First of all, component is really just 3 RG6 with RCA terminations. So those can also be used for things like CATV and SAT if necessary and you may want those if you ever think you will use those services.

HDMI can run over (typically) 2 CAT5e or CAT6 but you will need to check distance with the vendor you pick and there have been a lot of reports of incompatibility with equipment, either sync problems or signal issues like sparkles depending on the vendor, tv's, set top boxes, etc involved. There are also some single CAT5e solutions but verify those will support all the features and HDMI version you intend to use. The HDMI cable spec is made of of several lines/wires some of which are unused, 1 CAT5 (and even 2 CAT5) do not have enough wires to line up 1:1 with the HDMI spec, so the vendors have to drop the unused lines. As more HDMI features are added (like HD Audio, Ethernet over HDMI, 3D, etc) more of those lines get used and won't be supported over 1/2 CAT5 solutions.

For those reasons it is always best to use a real HDMI cable if you can. Eventually I think the industry will migrate to WirelessHD or 1GB+ ethernet solutions. There are some solutions that exist today based on those but they are expensive.

So as you research HDMI over CAT5 vendors, look at what features and HDMI versions they support, and check reviews or forums like AVSforum for confirmations/complaints on what devices they do or don't work with.

 

[tmbrown97]

Because of the uncertainty of where Digital TV is going, if at all possible, run some smurf tube or conduit so you have options in the future. Many people suggest running your intended wires outside of the smurf tube and leave that empty for future expansion.

There's a lot of reason to believe that our options for HD over Cat6 will improve in the future, but for right now it seems like we're in a transition period waiting to see where things land. Cat5 always seems attractive because most of us already have it in place - but as mentioned above, those are prone to problems of their own. Your distances also come into play - The theoretical max length for HDMI is somewhere around 45-50' IIRC natively.

HDBaseT type solutions show promise - hopefully in a couple years the TV will just be one more device on our IP networks; time will tell.

 

[KenN]

One wonders at what point we start to install fiber cable throughout the house. A bit expensive now, I would think, but just about any signal can be converted to/from fiber and the bar on throughput limits is raised many times higher.


For my municipal/industrial projects I'm putting fiber for a lot of comm signals, easy to pull in a 12f or 24f cable and use pairs as needed. Cable is (usually) also electrically inert so no problems with electrical codes or EMI crosstalk. I can run a fiber cable alongside a 12.5 kV cable and not worry about any kind of interference.

 

[tmbrown97]

I honestly think the reason we don't see fiber in homes is because of the knowledge and tools required to terminate/test/maintain it. The guys who are doing residential LV barely have a clue what they're doing, but they get away with it as Cat5 is kinda dummy-proof. Terminating fiber isn't for the typical trunk-slamming LV installer, or the average DIY'er.

From there, innovation tends to be focused on the largest market share, which is currently Cat5 or existing Coax. Given the very low number of homes with Fiber, the devices made to use it will be few and far between, and very expensive.

That said, someone just posted a nice article about some innovative smart homes, and the first one linked was highlighting how they did the video distribution over fiber. I don't know what that costs, but you're right - it'll have far more capability and without the noise issues.

 

[wuench]

Yeah termination and the fact that most equipment don't have fiber connections. Plus not all fiber is made equal and you have to worry about bend radius etc. Termination is a lot easier than the good ole days though.

I really think in 5 years we will be looking back at how silly it was to have to pull all this wire, the future is wireless. Just when you think we have reached the limits those crazy engineers come up with a way to squeeze more bandwidth out of the spectrum. WirelessHD and WiMax are pretty impressive and sufficient for this. If anything HDMI is forcing the issue.

And if you think about it, TV channels are transmitting HD over the air no reason we can't do it in the home. I know some of the local stations here only have a DS3 uplink to the network, that's only 45mbps.

 

[treo650]

I pulled hdmi for my new construction.

Simply due to the fact that hdmi baluns cost more than hdmi cables.

However, I pulled both component and hdmi... So I was covered on both end

 

[KenN]

I realize that this is a bit of a diversion from topic, but I'm just going to go ahead and assume that since the OP question was answered, it's okay to meander a bit off topic.

I really think that fiber really bears serious consideration, even though it's not "mainstream" (for home use) yet. Even some of the high speed wireless has limitations and there will always be the potential for interference no matter what your Tx strength or frequency is at. Dual-band can get around that a bit but still isn't immune.

Some very valid points around pulling strength and bend radius certainly add to the challenge, more so for pulling into closed walls. However, for a new construction or anything that's open to the studs, I personally would put fiber in without a sober second thought. If you look at the latest in multimode fiber cables and connectors I think you'll be quite surprised. Check out this youtube video (I hope I'm not violating any rules posting an external link!!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SthwoIDprrk

What's cool is that the newest connectors mean no resins, no polishing, no ovens - just trim back the sheath, cut and what is effectively a butt splice. Two hand tools and you're good to go. Back in the early 90s I used to see fiber termination guys go to work and the fast guys would take maybe 15-20 minutes per connector. Now, with a little patience and practice, joe average can connectorize fiber in two minutes or less per.

Wuench, you may have missed my earlier statement - there's a fiber to XXX convertor for just about everything so yes, you need a little convertor box at each end and the box needs power, but not an insurmountable problem!

 

[Del91574]

I realize that this is a bit of a diversion from topic, but I'm just going to go ahead and assume that since the OP question was answered, it's okay to meander a bit off topic.

What's cool is that the newest connectors mean no resins, no polishing, no ovens - just trim back the sheath, cut and what is effectively a butt splice. Two hand tools and you're good to go. Back in the early 90s I used to see fiber termination guys go to work and the fast guys would take maybe 15-20 minutes per connector. Now, with a little patience and practice, joe average can connectorize fiber in two minutes or less per.

Wuench, you may have missed my earlier statement - there's a fiber to XXX convertor for just about everything so yes, you need a little convertor box at each end and the box needs power, but not an insurmountable problem!

Yes, those connectors have improved the proliferation of fiber from the "specialists" to more people, however the crimp on connectors have a lot of issues to contend with. Matching gel can only do so much. The crimp connectors have a very high insertion loss, even in best case scenarios. Also, over time and in enviromental conditions, they fail quite often, or the attenuation becomes so bad, you end up having to install the epoxy connectors to fix the issue.

For a DIY, I can't see fiber happening on hardware, besides the basics (Toslink and similar). Far too easy to have contaminated connectors, high attenuation and maintaining the integrity of the fiber. I could see a properly installed fiber backbone in a house with appropriate FOC's to move to a more consumer friendly media once it leaves the wall, rack, etc.

For the OP, at this point, due to the construction of a UTP (or STP) with inherent timing skew running HDMI, even with top of the line baluns, it's the nature of the beast, running HDMI on category cables, even with $300-800 baluns. Some are better, but there's still an issue if you look deep enough. Component is the way to go at the moment for any sort of distance. Takes a lot of the guesswork out of the equation of "hope it works to spec" after the walls are up and baluns are being installed. If you want to gamble, I'd run both to the location and cover my bases.

If you're roughing the house and unsure, I'd recommend a composite cable ("Smurf") with fiber, futureproof the house relatively easily.

 

[sic0048]

If you're roughing the house and unsure, I'd recommend a composite cable ("Smurf") with fiber, futureproof the house relatively easily.

+1 Technology will constantly change, but if you have pulled smurf tubes to the proper locations you should always be able to keep up with the changes. The only problem you might run into is if a certain technology requires a larger plug that your tube can pull.

 

[KenN]

This I can buy into. Anything that lets me pull out the old, pull in the new without too much fuss or cursing as cabling tech takes a major step or two forward (maybe every 5-10 years) is just fine by me!

 

[video321]

Run a CL-rated HDMI where you can along with 4-5 Cat lines and 2 coax minimum. You typically need 2 Cat for HDMI, 1 for ethernet, 1 for anything else... IR send/receive, relay control, upstream device support - so many options. Analog audio or a local sat/cable box could use the coax and make it easier for the average joe if you decide to sell your house. An empty conduit would allow you to pull whatever else you may need in the future. And maybe wireless is the future, but Cat cable is too cheap not to install now - as much as you can and everywhere.

 

[tmbrown97]

The only problem you might run into is if a certain technology requires a larger plug that your tube can pull.

The RapidRun product line helps with this tremendously. It's my go-to when I have things like in-ground (in concrete) conduit for conference tables, etc. It comes with a pull-head on it which can be unscrewed at the end and either a flying lead or a wall-plate attached.

 

[video321]

The RapidRun product line helps with this tremendously.

I've used that too. Expensive, but it works.

 

[jms5180]

Because of the uncertainty of where Digital TV is going, if at all possible, run some smurf tube or conduit so you have options in the future. Many people suggest running your intended wires outside of the smurf tube and leave that empty for future expansion.

There's a lot of reason to believe that our options for HD over Cat6 will improve in the future, but for right now it seems like we're in a transition period waiting to see where things land. Cat5 always seems attractive because most of us already have it in place - but as mentioned above, those are prone to problems of their own. Your distances also come into play - The theoretical max length for HDMI is somewhere around 45-50' IIRC natively.

HDBaseT type solutions show promise - hopefully in a couple years the TV will just be one more device on our IP networks; time will tell.

So I think I'd be pretty good with the HDMI lengths. It may be close to the end for a couple things of TV's on the 2nd floor, not sure. I'm still not sold on what I'll need but would like to run conduit regardless. I dont suppose anyone on here offers some consulting on wiring since I plan on doing it myself and could use the help