Cat6 for motion sensors, door sensors, siren?

[MikeB]

Recently purchased a small commercial condo, and I'm looking to wire it up for a future Elk M1.

Can I simply run Cat6 to locations for motion sensors, door sensors and the siren? I'd prefer to use Cat6 because I feel it may be a bit more useful to me down the road, but I could be convinced otherwise...

Will Cat6 work?

 

[AceCannon]

Recently purchased a small commercial condo, and I'm looking to wire it up for a future Elk M1.

Can I simply run Cat6 to locations for motion sensors, door sensors and the siren? I'd prefer to use Cat6 because I feel it may be a bit more useful to me down the road, but I could be convinced otherwise...

Will Cat6 work?

The siren may draw more current than you would want to pass via cat6. Check specs.

 

[sic0048]

Just a couple of differences I can think of.... first is wire gauge. Cat6 is generally 23 gauge, but also comes in 22-24 gauge as well. Alarm/contact wire is generally 18 or 22 gauge, so depending on the need, it might not be large enough.

Second, bulk cat6 wire is generally going to be solid. Most alarm wire is going to be stranded. Solid wire is best when terminating into a punch down block, but stranded is generally easy to work with in all other situations. It is also less likely to break than solid wire. A small break that works intermittently could cause all kinds of headaches and might be hard to troubleshoot and track down.

Third is cost. Cat6 wire is going to be much more expensive than normal alarm wire so why go to the extra cost? Generally speaking, it is going to be hard to utilize that alarm wire for anything else other than it's original intent because of the locations you are installing the wire. It's not like installing cat6 for both phone and network because you might end up using the phone wire for network in the future. That makes sense, but having a cat6 wire at the top of a door or window probably won't be used for anything other than alarm use.

Hopefully that makes sense. There isn't anything generally wrong with using cat6 wire (other than making sure the gauge matches the use), but it just doesn't make a lot of sense IMHO.

 

[Sacedog]

I woudl not use Cat6 for security wire. It is typically smaller guage than standard security wire. It is also usually solid core, which you really want to stay away from with security wire. Stranded wire if far more forgiving, and less likely to have problems with shorts from a partially clipped, or over bent wire.

I also agree that you probably not use the wire that you run for security contacts for anything other than security contacts. If you want to provide a little future proof, you might consider running 22/4 instead of 22/2 so that you have an extra pair for any future expansion.

 

[MikeB]

Thanks guys. I was planning on using stranded for those runs and doubling up the wires if needed, but the location argument makes sense. Chances are the alarm wire would be sufficient for anything I put at those locations.

 

[AceCannon]

Thanks guys. I was planning on using stranded for those runs and doubling up the wires if needed, but the location argument makes sense. Chances are the alarm wire would be sufficient for anything I put at those locations.

I would add that cat5/6 takes up a lot more space in the central closet than 22/4 alarm wire. You wouldn't think it would make a difference, but after running about 13000 ft of cat5e and comparing that unterminated wire mass to the 22/4 bundle from the doors and windows. . . 22/4 was a bunch smaller and more malleable.

Just another thought.

Oh yeah, don't forget that for an Elk M1, four conductors to the keypads is not going to be sufficient. I am happy with cat5e to those locations. Especially after I found one pair in a run noworkie, had to use the spare pair to get that keypad functional.

 

[ano]

I agree with most others by not using CAT5/6 for sensors with one exception. You might want to consider running it (or at least 6 conductors) to wired motion detectors. These things are getting smarter and smarter with many more options then in the past, and that takes wires. For example, some motion sensors can also be occupancy sensors (which detactivates the anti-falsing circuits, increases sensitivity, etc.) and that takes a wire. In fact, I use sensors like this and adding the wire isn't fun. I think with 6 wires your safe, but 8 isn't bad either.

 

[WayneW]

For example, some motion sensors can also be occupancy sensors (which detactivates the anti-falsing circuits, increases sensitivity, etc.)

Got names or model numbers to share? This sounds interesting.

 

[Sacedog]

I would add that cat5/6 takes up a lot more space in the central closet than 22/4 alarm wire. You wouldn't think it would make a difference, but after running about 13000 ft of cat5e and comparing that unterminated wire mass to the 22/4 bundle from the doors and windows. . . 22/4 was a bunch smaller and more malleable.

Good point Ace. I would have never been able to fit all my cable into my termination can!

http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php...=si&img=232

 

[ano]

For example, some motion sensors can also be occupancy sensors (which detactivates the anti-falsing circuits, increases sensitivity, etc.)

Got names or model numbers to share? This sounds interesting.

Mine are a several year-old Optex models. They contain both IR and microwave. IR works best across the field, microwave toward or away. In "motion mode" both microwave AND IR must trigger to trigger the alarm. In "occupancy mode" either will trigger occupancy. Its sometimes hard to tell it has this "feature" by just looking at the glossy sheet, but I would suspect they have it on those that use both microwave and IR, and Optex has several. MAYBE DX-40/60/40PLUS/60PLUS

I didn't even know MINE had that feature until I saw this extra terminal and I traced out what it did in the instructions. Maybe some other sensor gurus here can chime on which models have that feature?

 

[WayneW]

Looking over the Optex dual tech spec sheet, I see no evidence of a second output for occupancy detection. Unless they are experts at obscurity, it appears the current models cannot function as both an occupancy AND a security sensor, since I think that would take two distinct outputs.

 

[ano]

Its not an OUTPUT but an INPUT. They can only operate in one mode at a time, they use the same output for both. I'll see if I can find the name that they called it, because it wasn't very descriptive.

I can't say OPTEX still has that feature, but I find it hard to believe no manufacturer does, especially with more people using home automation or occupancy sensors to save on power.

 

[amaaffy]

I know that this is an old post, but unfortunately I did not read this before. I have already wired my large new home with cat6 for every thing, motion, fire, doors, speakers, sirens..etc.

My question is can I combines two wires in order to increase the size of the wire. For example use one twisted pair as one wire?

Thanks for your help and advise.

 

[AceCannon]

I know that this is an old post, but unfortunately I did not read this before. I have already wired my large new home with cat6 for every thing, motion, fire, doors, speakers, sirens..etc.

My question is can I combines two wires in order to increase the size of the wire. For example use one twisted pair as one wire?

Depends on who you ask. I have 8 of these motion / speaker combo's throughout my house. One cat5e to each location. I doubled up on the conductors for the speakers and everything has been working for 2 years now.

 

[tmbrown97]

You can make anything work - it's just not ideal... one giant red-flag though FIRE - Fire/smoke detectors need to be wired with fire-rated wire to ensure they don't melt before they get a chance to trigger the alarm.

Motions/contact sensors don't draw enough current to matter - you can make it work; but for speakers, definitely double-up for more current-carrying capacity.