Autmoating Sprinklers with M1

[RandyKnight]

Finally getting around to integrating my irrigation system with the M1 / HA system. I'll likely use mcsSprinklers on HomeSeer but use the Elk for hardware control and have some failsafe type of rules so a valve doesn't stay on too long, only one valve at a time, etc. I've done a fair amount of reading on this already and found BSR's schematic in another thread which was very helpful. But I do have a few questions.

The existing sprinkler timer is in the garage on the other side of the house from the wiring closet with the M1. The existing clock is 24 zones, of which 19 are currently used. There is a single Cat5 run over to the sprinkler location.

Parts I have:
M1XOV (16 output expander)
912-12 (12 relays)
Wall Wart, wire, etc.

So I am short 7 relays and 3 outputs to meet current needs. My thinking was to buy a M1XOVR to give me an additional 8 relays / 8 outputs.

Questions:
1. On the M1XOVR, the 8 outputs drive the 8 relays right?
2. I hate to put a whole DBH out there but with two modules and only one Cat5 am I stuck doing that? My DBH in the wiring closet is maxed out so I'll need to buy one anyway, but I hate to waste all those ports out in the garage. Is there a way to use one port on the existing DBH and then daisy chaing the modules in the garage?
3. Another thought was can I run another RS-485 run from the panel to the garage, daisy chained, bypassing the DBH all together?
4. I also realized this is a good opportunity to automate the garage door openers. Will just an output handle that or do I need relays for those as well?
5. Is there a market for lightly used RainBird 24-zone timers?

Edit: Just rememberd I do have another Cat5 in the garage with 4 unused wires if that helps. It's for the garage door contacts but I could extend those 4 wires over to where the sprinklers stuff is.

 

[Photon]

If I understand the RS-485 data bus, you won't NEED any additional data bus hubs. Your point 3 is correct. The hubs are nice for convenience, but are not necessary for pereformance.

At the M1, remove the terminating resistor jumper J3. Connect your existing cat5 line to the M1 data bus terminals using just two pairs. I suggest you use brown/white for +power and white/brown for ground. Use green/white for data A and use white/green for data B. You could use any two of the four pairs, but this is sort of how the M1DBH would be connected if you were using it. You could also use a second pair in parallel with the pair you choose for power if you need to carry more current.

At the garage end of the cat5 cable, use the same color code to connect to the first output expander such as the M1XOVR, and then continue the same wire pairs to any additional expanders. The important part is to terminate the data bus with a resistor jumper at only the last expansion board in this chain. Remove the terminating resistor jumper from all but the last one on this chunk of cat5.

The M1 manual has information on page 7 on the daisy-chain connection method for the RS-485 data bus, and it emphasizes there should be just two termnating resistors, one at each end. No more; no less.

If this isn't clear, I expect others will jump in to clarify.

 

[RandyKnight]

If I understand the RS-485 data bus, you won't NEED any additional data bus hubs. Your point 3 is correct. The hubs are nice for convenience, but are not necessary for pereformance.

At the M1, remove the terminating resistor jumper J3. Connect your existing cat5 line to the M1 data bus terminals using just two pairs. I suggest you use brown/white for +power and white/brown for ground. Use green/white for data A and use white/green for data B. You could use any two of the four pairs, but this is sort of how the M1DBH would be connected if you were using it. You could also use a second pair in parallel with the pair you choose for power if you need to carry more current.

At the garage end of the cat5 cable, use the same color code to connect to the first output expander such as the M1XOVR, and then continue the same wire pairs to any additional expanders. The important part is to terminate the data bus with a resistor jumper at only the last expansion board in this chain. Remove the terminating resistor jumper from all but the last one on this chunk of cat5.

The M1 manual has information on page 7 on the daisy-chain connection method for the RS-485 data bus, and it emphasizes there should be just two termnating resistors, one at each end. No more; no less.

If this isn't clear, I expect others will jump in to clarify.

To be clear, I already have one DBH that is maxed out with XSP's, Keypads, and Zone Expanders. So this woud be adding a 2nd RS-485 line. Just wondering if I will have termination issues doing this.

 

[Photon]

RK, I haven't done it, but I believe it will work. The illustration on p7 of the M1 manual shows two legs of the data bus. In your case, one leg connects to the hub. The other leg you would add would look like the second one.

Aloha. . . . John

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Randy;

That's going to be a lot of wiring to the M1XOV (wiring the 16 relays to it). Of course I see your strategy as getting a true relay output board (M1XOVR with it's outputs going to an M1RB) would only give you 16 relays.

That is a lot of zones! I like the Elk products but for that number of zones do you think a WGL Designs solution would be easier to operate? For instance they have a "run-away" clock internal to the unit.

 

[Steve]

2 bus lines off the control will not be a problem. I would probably use a 14" can in the garage to hold all the sprinkler stuff. If it were me, I would put in 2 or 3 M1XOVR or M1RB instead of the 912's as it will be alot neater and you will have LED indicators so you can tell what zones are on at a glance.

 

[RandyKnight]

2 bus lines off the control will not be a problem. I would probably use a 14" can in the garage to hold all the sprinkler stuff. If it were me, I would put in 2 or 3 M1XOVR or M1RB instead of the 912's as it will be alot neater and you will have LED indicators so you can tell what zones are on at a glance.

I get you on that ... just trying to use parts I already have.

I do like the idea of LED indicators though. If I added 2 M1RB's to the XOV would that accomplish what you're saying? And then add an XOVR to get me to 19 (actually 24 in that case).

I still have the original Elk Can laying around ... thought I'd use that.

 

[RandyKnight]

That is a lot of zones! I like the Elk products but for that number of zones do you think a WGL Designs solution would be easier to operate? For instance they have a "run-away" clock internal to the unit.

I have a 2 acre lot. Lot of water use in the summer too.

I thought about using the Rain8 Net stuff but it was going to be about $300 for the 3 modules. Since I already had some Elk parts on hand was trying to do it cheaper. Plus I just like the rock solid reliability of the M1 hardware. I'm going to use mcsSprinklers with HomeSeer anyway, but according to the docs you can use any HomeSeer Device for a valve. I just liked the idea of using Elk outputs ... seemed a bit cleaner than adding yet another type of hardware. Plus having to use another serial port on the HA box.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Oh I agree, the Elk product are rock solid. The WGL Designs are also. I was just considering possibly a different tool for the job, mainly because of the large number of zones.

I was actually thinking the WiFi for 24 zones for under $400. But, again you bring up a good point about about the price if you already have most of the parts on hand!

 

[RandyKnight]

I do like the idea of LED indicators though. If I added 2 M1RB's to the XOV would that accomplish what you're saying? And then add an XOVR to get me to 19 (actually 24 in that case).

Does the XOVR have LED's ... it doesn't look like it from photos. In which case if I want LED's I'd need 3 M1RB's and an additional XOVR right? Getting pricey.

 

[RandyKnight]

Here's a crazy thought. What if I use the 912's and drive some cheap LED's with the same output/relay as an active zone? I could mount 19 LED's in the front of the can and even have them labeled with the zone. Cheap solution?

I really like the idea of a direct hardware way of knowing if a zone is active or not.

Let's see ... what about an LCD display with a description of the active zone .... nah.

 

[RandyKnight]

2 bus lines off the control will not be a problem. I would probably use a 14" can in the garage to hold all the sprinkler stuff. If it were me, I would put in 2 or 3 M1XOVR or M1RB instead of the 912's as it will be alot neater and you will have LED indicators so you can tell what zones are on at a glance.

So I just tried the 2nd leg on the bench and I've still got something not quite right.

Current Configuration:
M1, JP3 installed.
DBH, all ports used, terminator in the last port.
8 devices total (3 keypads, 4 zone expanders, 1 XSP)

What I tried:
Conect another set of 4 wires to the 485 connections on the M1
Remove JP3
Connect the 2nd leg to the M1XOV, with the terminating jumper installed

Results:
Bus module enrollment found one device.

What am I missing here? It seemed to me I was doing exactly like the diagram on Page 7 of the M1 manual.

 

[Spanky]

2. I hate to put a whole DBH out there but with two modules and only one Cat5 am I stuck doing that? My DBH in the wiring closet is maxed out so I'll need to buy one anyway, but I hate to waste all those ports out in the garage. Is there a way to use one port on the existing DBH and then daisy chaing the modules in the garage?

Wire the two modules in a daisy chain coming off the M1DBH output. Basically you will have two data wires going to the first module, then to the second module, then returning to the DBH input hub port.

 

[Steve]

2 bus lines off the control will not be a problem. I would probably use a 14" can in the garage to hold all the sprinkler stuff. If it were me, I would put in 2 or 3 M1XOVR or M1RB instead of the 912's as it will be alot neater and you will have LED indicators so you can tell what zones are on at a glance.

So I just tried the 2nd leg on the bench and I've still got something not quite right.

Current Configuration:
M1, JP3 installed.
DBH, all ports used, terminator in the last port.
8 devices total (3 keypads, 4 zone expanders, 1 XSP)

What I tried:
Conect another set of 4 wires to the 485 connections on the M1
Remove JP3
Connect the 2nd leg to the M1XOV, with the terminating jumper installed

Results:
Bus module enrollment found one device.

What am I missing here? It seemed to me I was doing exactly like the diagram on Page 7 of the M1 manual.

That sounds right. 2 legs off off of the controller. Each end of each leg gets terminated (last device on dbh and last device on new leg (XOVR)). J3 removed. That sounds right. Check 2 things - 1 for loose connections, 2 - check bus resistance. With power off, check resistance between Data A and B on the controller. It should read around 65 ohms. If it isn't you have a wiring problem or an extra or missing terminator.

 

[Steve]

I do like the idea of LED indicators though. If I added 2 M1RB's to the XOV would that accomplish what you're saying? And then add an XOVR to get me to 19 (actually 24 in that case).

Does the XOVR have LED's ... it doesn't look like it from photos. In which case if I want LED's I'd need 3 M1RB's and an additional XOVR right? Getting pricey.

I believe the XOVR does have LEDS's they are surface mount instead of regular red domes. Check with AO to be sure but that is my understanding.

You could use M1RB by themselves with XOV. I don't have XOV, just RB's. For your sprinkler valves you need the relays, not just outputs.

You could certainly build your own with cheap LED's, etc. You could also come up with mounts for the 912's and use them, I just think the XOVR or RB would be neater.