HA Rules - How do you handle manual overrides?

[DotNetDog]

I haven't picked out a specific Home Automation software yet so my question is somewhat generic.

Let's say that I have occupancy sensors in most rooms and that I have created rules that turns on the lights when I walk into a particular room (i.e. - a bedroom). For now, let's ignore conditions like time of day (no lights on at 2AM).

Now, I walk into the bedroom and the lights come one. Great! But what if I want to take a nap. I walk into the bedroom and the lights come on so I manually turn them off. I lay down and since I'm very still the occupancy sensors do not "see" me. Eventually I roll over...MOVEMENT! The lights come on.

How would you write the rule(s) so that manually turning off the lights would keep them off? What about after my nap is done? How would the HA software get back to normally controlling the lights again?

Hopefully you gurus will tell me a simple way to handle this scenario.

 

[drozwood90]

I'd put a sensor in the bed...that's how I do it.

--Dan

 

[TonyNo]

My solution is a bit hard-core. I count bodies in and out of rooms using two motion sensors angled slightly apart. Outer-then-inner adds to the room count, and the opposite of that decrements the count. When >0, light turns on. When 0, light turns off.

 

[jaymartin]

With some technologies - i.e. INSTEON SwitchLincs, a single tap ON/OFF can be distinguished from a double tap ON/OFF (called Instant ON/OFF in INSTEON terminology) - other devices for other technologies might offer the same distinction. Anyway, you could set up a trigger in your HA system to catch a double tap OFF (as opposed to a single tap OFF) that would could do something - like disable the motion sensor trigger - either for a specific amount of time or until some other even happens (maybe a double-tap ON).

Another option would be to have some type of controller in the bedroom that would allow you to turn on/off the motion sensing in the same way as above but wouldn't be tied to the actual light switch.

 

[123]

I like Dan's solution because it allows the HA system to make a decision using the same criteria a person would use.

I walk into the bedroom. Should I turn on the lights on?
No. Someone is sleeping and I don't want to wake them.
Yes. No one is sleeping.

Determining "sleeping" is tricky even for a person. Ask yourself how you do it now. Do you ask, very softly, "Are you awake?" and listen for a response? Do you listen for silence or snoring? Do you conclude they are asleep if they are in bed and all lights are out or very dim? Do you use several of the aforementioned tests?

Basing the decision on 'bed occupancy' is a very good start. Add a test for lighting level (i.e. the person is in bed and the lights are out) and you have a reasonable basis for concluding the person is asleep (and the lights should not come on automatically).

 

[ano]

I haven't picked out a specific Home Automation software yet so my question is somewhat generic.

Let's say that I have occupancy sensors in most rooms and that I have created rules that turns on the lights when I walk into a particular room (i.e. - a bedroom). For now, let's ignore conditions like time of day (no lights on at 2AM).

Now, I walk into the bedroom and the lights come one. Great! But what if I want to take a nap. I walk into the bedroom and the lights come on so I manually turn them off. I lay down and since I'm very still the occupancy sensors do not "see" me. Eventually I roll over...MOVEMENT! The lights come on.

How would you write the rule(s) so that manually turning off the lights would keep them off? What about after my nap is done? How would the HA software get back to normally controlling the lights again?

Hopefully you gurus will tell me a simple way to handle this scenario.

Yes, put a sensor on the bed. I have done this as well. Its a bit of a game. As you encounter things like this, you start asking yourself, under what conditions don't I want this or that to occur, and how can the home automation system know about these. That is the whole premise behind a smarthome, it has to be smart. If you have to bypass things, its pretty dumb.

 

[Monk]

I agree with Dan, 123 and Ano.
I am thinking about bed-occupancy too. Here is a thread related to pressure sensitive mats that can be trimmed / cut to size as needed. People are using them to tell if chairs are occupied, etc. Note that this would be a true "DIY / Hobby" project that might require certain skills. (Soldering, etc)

http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t...eferrerid=62648

 

[DotNetDog]

Lots of good ideas. Thanks.

Here's another solution that I thought of (tell me if this would work). If I use a multi-button scene controller in each bedroom then one button could be "Nap Mode". The HA software sees this event and stops controlling the room for a period of time...maybe for the rest of that day. Then the HA system resumes its automated control over the room. Another button could be to turn off "Nap Mode" just in case you want to resume automated control sooner.

The "take a nap" scenario was only one possible manual-override scenario. I suppose there would be others, too. Each case would have to be handled separately.

 

[123]

A dedicated "I'm asleep" button is certainly one way to solve the problem. However, it introduces a step that is not normally involved in daily living. For example, you don't normally post a sticky-note on the bedroom door to siganl to everyone that you are going to sleep. If the entire household can adapt to this arrangement then OK. Otherwise, I prefer the "zero user-interface" approach where the house senses your activitues and acts accordingly.

 

[jaymartin]

Lots of good ideas. Thanks.

Here's another solution that I thought of (tell me if this would work). If I use a multi-button scene controller in each bedroom then one button could be "Nap Mode". The HA software sees this event and stops controlling the room for a period of time...maybe for the rest of that day. Then the HA system resumes its automated control over the room. Another button could be to turn off "Nap Mode" just in case you want to resume automated control sooner.

The "take a nap" scenario was only one possible manual-override scenario. I suppose there would be others, too. Each case would have to be handled separately.

Pretty much what I posted...

 

[DotNetDog]

A dedicated "I'm asleep" button is certainly one way to solve the problem. However, it introduces a step that is not normally involved in daily living. For example, you don't normally post a sticky-note on the bedroom door to siganl to everyone that you are going to sleep. If the entire household can adapt to this arrangement then OK. Otherwise, I prefer the "zero user-interface" approach where the house senses your activitues and acts accordingly.

Yeah, I agree. The trick (as you pointed out previously) is how "the house senses your activities". I'll have to think a bit more and see how that might work.

 

[jaymartin]

A dedicated "I'm asleep" button is certainly one way to solve the problem. However, it introduces a step that is not normally involved in daily living. For example, you don't normally post a sticky-note on the bedroom door to siganl to everyone that you are going to sleep. If the entire household can adapt to this arrangement then OK. Otherwise, I prefer the "zero user-interface" approach where the house senses your activitues and acts accordingly.

Hmmm - I guess I disagree a bit - generally, if I'm gonna go take a nap, I tell anyone else in the house I'm going to take a nap - the implication is that I don't want to be disturbed. The button approach is like telling your house not to bother you.

Zero user-interface is good where it's a pretty much a slam-dunk (open a closet door and a light goes on automatically, close it and the light goes off). But it gets much trickier when the house has to "guess" at your intention. What if I'm sitting/laying on the bed watching tv? That's different than sleeping in terms of the type of interruptions you want.

You also want to factor in implementation cost in terms of time, $$, technological knowledge needed, etc. A simple button toggle is really cheap from this perspective.

 

[Monk]

Zero user-interface is good where it's a pretty much a slam-dunk (open a closet door and a light goes on automatically, close it and the light goes off). But it gets much trickier when the house has to "guess" at your intention. What if I'm sitting/laying on the bed watching tv? That's different than sleeping in terms of the type of interruptions you want.

You are fortunate. In my house, the bed gets made and "pillowed up" every morning - looks like a freakin magazine article of a room. Casual use is forbidden, unless I want to deal with smoothing everything back the way it was - in any case, if I really NEED a nap, I'll go for it.

Yes it does get tricky! it all depends on the situation, as you note above.

 

[signal15]

Put a pulsor sensor on your bed frame.

 

[ano]

I actually spent years perfecting the bed sensor I use and I can tell you lots that DON'T work. I tried IR beams, stress sensors, even pressure mats and what may seem like a good idea in theory, doesn't work. The pressure mat is great to catch someone standing on it. Not so great catching a person horizontal on a bed. The only thing that worked for me, was replacing a bed leg with a device I built which basically measures the weight on the device. After it "broke in" its been 100% accurate for YEARS. Our house couldn't function without it.