UPB Polling - Is there such a thing? UPB trouble via java/web interface

[personalt]

* I hooked up my first two switches into the ELK last night. Something was weird in that via the java/web interface I could turn my switches off but could didnt go back on. I would flick the switch on and off but the light would stay off. Now as a disclaimer I didnt hook up my phase coupler yet, doing that tomorrow. I had two switches installed and I know for a fact they were not on the same phase so the CIM had to be on the same phase as one of them. I figured I had some setting wrong in UPBStart that related to dimming however when I went over to the ELK keypad and turned the swtiches on and off it was 10 for 10. Is there something fishy with the java/web interface?

*Is there any sort of polling that takes place or does it just relying on no messages being dropped to keep things in sync.

*I figured I would hook the UPB controller to the ELK rather then to CQC. My reasoning being the alarm is always on where the PC can be down for upgrades/reboots/windows crashes. I was making the assumption CQC telling ELK to tell UPB would be the way to go when I want to make changes via my remote controls and touch pads. Does that make the most sense?

*Is there any reason to get a second controller and hook it up to CQC?

*Is there any reason to get a second controller for other testing purposes? I am okay taking the controller out of the ELK when I get a new switch but I am wondering if there is a good reason to have UPBStart running when there is a controller in the ELK.

 

[bmil]

personalt,

I don't use the M1 Ethernet interface so I can't provide any insight to your web/java interface problems.

The M1's UPB implementation does not do polling (I don't know if CQC does or not). It just sends out the UPB command and just "assumes" that the command was received and successful. If it tells a UPB switch to turn on, but that switch doesn't receive the message for whatever reason, the M1 still assumes that the device is now on.

Many of us UPB users who use the M1 along with HA software use 2 PIMS. As you mentioned it's convienent not to have to switch the PIM from the M1 to the PC and back again to add or reconfigure switches. But it's also useful because of the way UPB is implemented by the M1 as mentioned above. When a UPB switch receives a command it sends back an ACK (acknowledgement) message so the sender knows that the switch received the command ok. Most HA programs (unlike the M1) look for this ACK message and if it doesn't receive it will send the original command out multiple times until it gets an ACK back.

For this reason I have my HA program (HomeSeer) handling the majority of my lighting control. I do have some M1 lighting rules where if the M1 sees that the PC/HomeSeer is down, it will turn various lights on/off at different times if no one is home for security purposes.

For myself, the 2nd PIM was well worth the extra $$$.

 

[tpz507]

personalt,

I don't use the M1 Ethernet interface so I can't provide any insight to your web/java interface problems.

The M1's UPB implementation does not do polling (I don't know if CQC does or not). It just sends out the UPB command and just "assumes" that the command was received and successful. If it tells a UPB switch to turn on, but that switch doesn't receive the message for whatever reason, the M1 still assumes that the device is now on.

Many of us UPB users who use the M1 along with HA software use 2 PIMS. As you mentioned it's convienent not to have to switch the PIM from the M1 to the PC and back again to add or reconfigure switches. But it's also useful because of the way UPB is implemented by the M1 as mentioned above. When a UPB switch receives a command it sends back an ACK (acknowledgement) message so the sender knows that the switch received the command ok. Most HA programs (unlike the M1) look for this ACK message and if it doesn't receive it will send the original command out multiple times until it gets an ACK back.

For this reason I have my HA program (HomeSeer) handling the majority of my lighting control. I do have some M1 lighting rules where if the M1 sees that the PC/HomeSeer is down, it will turn various lights on/off at different times if no one is home for security purposes.

For myself, the 2nd PIM was well worth the extra $$$.

Hi Bmil,

This is very interesting subject for the ones who like to implement UPB stuff, I am thinking on doing most of the HA (simple stuff) with the M1 but I have found that for UPB there is no ACK handshake, so as you mentioned there is not possible to track the status of the devices. Do you know if ELK will implement this option on a near firmware upgrade?

 

[bmil]

I don't know when/if Elk will implement using the UPB ACK message. If my memory hasn't gone completely I have some recollection of this discussion taking place previously either here or over on the Elk site discussion board. I believe someone from Elk (Spanky maybe?) mentioned they would look into it but I don't have any other info.

 

[mustangcoupe]

That is one reason I decided to do my lightning from ELVE and the computer not the M1, but I can still use the M1 motion sensors and inputs to turn lights on and off with the ELVE ElkM1 driver. Most other HA software packages are the same so I would figure CQC can do it for you.