Turn off piezos when in Stay mode

Kevin L

Active Member
Hi, all.

Have M1G installed and working. Adding some additional equipment and have the alarm company here doing some wiring right now. I have the following speaker/siren equipment to install:

M1-TWI two-way interface
M1-TWS speaker/microphones (2)
150RT and strobe
Elk 70 Siren
Elk 71 Speaker
Moose MPI-47C piezo screamers (4)

I'd like the speakers to go off when alarm goes off as well as the outdoor 150RT and strobe when we're home in Stay mode. I don't want the screamers going. When in Away mode, I'd like everything to go off. Is this possible, and if so, how? If I have to buy more equipment, no problem, I just want to know if I should have him wire and install the screamers.

Thanks,

Kevin
 
No more equipment needed. You can do that easily with rules.

I have my smokes give a 30 second delay after the elk speakers fire off, prior to sounding the piezos, so false alarms can be silenced before the hearing damage.

Brian
 
This can all be accomplished pretty easily through some rules, but you may need a couple more output relays to do it right.

First, you could put both the strobe on. Out 2 and use out3 for the screamers and turn them on via rules when the alarm is tripped... But a better way is to also put the strobe on it's own output but then have it stay on once the alarm is tripled even after the alarm auto-silences so that you have a visual indication when coming home after an alarm to proceed cautiously.

Also, the 150rt pulls too much power by default, so be sure to do the millimiser mod to get it into range. And I found that because of the supervision, it puts out a constant tone unless you run a resister across the terminals... So I'm personally changing to the speaker only version. Added benefit is that indoor siren will be in sync with outdoor siren.

Hi, all.

Have M1G installed and working. Adding some additional equipment and have the alarm company here doing some wiring right now. I have the following speaker/siren equipment to install:

M1-TWI two-way interface
M1-TWS speaker/microphones (2)
150RT and strobe
Elk 70 Siren
Elk 71 Speaker
Moose MPI-47C piezo screamers (4)

I'd like the speakers to go off when alarm goes off as well as the outdoor 150RT and strobe when we're home in Stay mode. I don't want the screamers going. When in Away mode, I'd like everything to go off. Is this possible, and if so, how? If I have to buy more equipment, no problem, I just want to know if I should have him wire and install the screamers.

Thanks,

Kevin
 
Also should note that there's probably no good reason to go with the 70 and the 71... All the siren is is a speaker with the built in siren amp... that's built into the M1, so you could technically do all your sirens as speakers and as I mentioned before, when they go off, they'll all be in sync, plus you need to make sure you have enough outputs and power to run them all, whereas you could run all your speakers off Out 1 and Out 2, put the strobe on Out 3, and add in one relay (unless you have an output expander already) to handle the piezo's.

Otherwise just imagine the odd sound the house would make when you have piezo's going at one tone, 1 speaker in the house on it's own siren, the other playing the siren sounds out of sync, and yet a third tone going outside, at it's own sync... would sound like a jumbled mess I'd imagine.

If you choose to go with the equipment above, here's a couple other things... The 150 already draws 1.2 amps, which would overload the M1's output 2. You either need to run a relay to a separate power supply, or do the millmiser change which drops it to 700ma... The 71 Siren draws 480ma on it's own, so you can't hook that on out 2 with the 150RT even in millmiser, as that's now just about 1.2 amps again. Either way, one of them would need to be split over to a relay of its own.
So, here's what you'd pretty much want to do if you go with the equipment you have now:
  • Elk 70 Speaker on Out1 (if you already have other speakers, make sure you keep them balanced to keep ohms up high enough).
  • Elk 150RT on Out 2, and you'll probably need the resistor across the terminals to stop the low constant tone. Set that to millimiser and set the output to voltage.
  • Strobe on Out 3 (it can handle the higher current) - leave this as the only thing on out 3 so that you can leave it on until the alarm is disarmed (through rules) - this will give you a visual indicator to proceed with caution if returning after the alarm was tripped - otherwise, you may not know
  • Using another output w/relay and possible aux. power supply, hook up the 71 siren
  • Yet another output w/relay for the piezo's (you could combine these last to if you only want the siren when the piezos are also on).
For the relays, you can either use individual relays off the voltage outputs onboard, you can run a relay expander off the voltage outputs for 8 relays, or you can use a relay expander if you want to add additional outputs/relays.

You can then set rules to use the piezo's only if the house is armed away and alarm is triggered, and you can use another rule to keep the strobe going until you disarm...

Of course this is some personal opinion too, and some mistakes I made as well. I have the 150RT at home already, and I wasn't liking how it was coming out, so about 20 minutes ago, UPS just dropped off the Elk44 which I'll be using instead (they have another version that's in the stainless enclosure too, but I came to find I didn't really need that - my speaker is in the attic behind the screen in the eaves - you'd never know it was there if it wasn't going off - but now I have to find a new place for the strobe).
 
Thanks, Brian and Todd. I appreciate the quick responses.

Todd, thanks for the recommendations. This is what it looks like I'm doing in the house:

(2) M1-TWS speaker/microphones
Several piezos
I have to use an enclosure outside as I have solid stucco soffits without venting.
I likely won't use the 70 and 71.

Should I change the 150RT to the 1RT?

So the M1G will output a siren sound in the speakers?

I like the idea of the strobe on a separate output. Since I'll do that and have the piezos, I presume I should order an output expander. Would the ELK-M1XOVR be the way to go?

Thanks for all the help. This is my first alarm and foray into HA. I've ordered the HomeTroller S2 and it should arrive next week. All this will work with the LiteJet system I installed, too.

This place is great!

Kevin
 
Personally I think the 1RT is the better way to go, but if you already have the 150RT, it basically comes down to if you want the speakers and siren tones in sync. If you use the 150RT, just be sure to do the millimiser mod. I wondered if you could modify the 150RT to bypass the siren driver and drive the speaker instead, but for the price of a new speaker, I just ordered that while I was ordering some additional accessories.

Basically the 1RT and the 150RT are the same thing, with the same speaker - but the 150RT includes the siren driver so you apply voltage. The 1RT skips the siren driver and uses the one built into the M1.

Also, for either one, you will want to use 6 conductors out to the speaker/siren enclosure - figuring 1 pair to monitor the tamper contacts, 1 pair to drive the siren (voltage or speaker), and one pair to drive the strobe... though you could probably make due with 4 if that's what's there as long as the gauge is adequate if using the siren by using 1 ground, then 1 tamper, 1 positive for the siren and a positive for the strobe. Not sure if you could get away with that on the speaker, but there's a decent chance... but 6 wires would be much better.

And of course with outputs, there's options too. Depends on if you're just trying to add this, or if you're making room for other enhancements later. There are 10 voltage outputs off the M1 board, so if some are used, you could do individual relays like the Elk 912 - that's an inexpensive little relay, so you could order just what you need... or use the M1RB to turn 8 of those voltage leads into 8 relays so you have room to grow - it's a simple connector between them that makes it really easy. If the voltage leads are used or you just want more output options, then you can go with the M1XOVR - that gives you the absolute most flexibility by giving you 16 additional outputs, 8 relays and 8 flying leads (which can again go to an M1RB for 8 more relays if you want) - it's just about the most expensive of the options. Depends on if you want to spend $8 or $150 to accomplish this and what else you may wish to do in the future.


The M1XOVR has the added benefit of working off the RS485 bus, so it can be located anywhere with just a piece of Cat5 linking it back to the panel. For instance, here's how I am going with mine:
  • Main Cabinet, Output 1 to speakers - KP12's mounted behind the keypads and others around the home for even audio distribution
  • Output 2 - Elk44 (same speaker that's in the 1RT)
  • Output 3 - Piezo's (GE Screamers, round - cieling mount) throughout the house.
  • Outputs 4-6 not used - only for two-way listen in, which I'm not doing.
  • Outputs 7/8 - Could run a Elk912 relay off one of these for the strobe, but I don't have wiring run yet, so I may run those off the XOVR instead.. probably just 2 open relays for future use there in the closet
  • Outputs 9-16 will be going to the Elk124 8-Channel Recordable Voice Module that's on order... this will be going to the same KP12 speakers, but lets me record in my own sounds for doorbell, phone ringing, and special tones (I'm using simple tones that are slightly different so I know which door was opened without needing voice), and can trigger any other voice announcement I want through the house speakers... Added bonus - independant volume, so it can be a little louder for the important notifications.
Then I have a Cat5 out to the garage, where there's an additional 14" can mounted on the wall (the one that came with the M1G, since I put the M1G in an elk 28" recessed can in the closet) with an M1XOVR and an M1RB giving me more outputs:

  • Outputs 17/18 - Garage Doors
  • Output 19 - Strobe (simple wiring off a 12V power supply to get the strobe outside... easier than running through the attic)
  • Outputs 20/21 - spare until I think of something better
  • Output 22 - Pool Fill (replaced manual valve with industrial sprinkler valve)
  • Outputs 23-27 - Front sprinkler zones 1-5
  • Outputs 28-32 - Rear sprinkler zones 1-5
Probably more info than you care about, but the point is - depending on what you're trying to accomplish in the long run, there are a lot of options... The best thing to do is figure out what your ideal end goals are, and with each incremental purchase, make sure it's going in the right direction. The more you know, the more you can plan how you want to set things up. The M1 is an incredibly flexible and powerful system - and I'm personally trying to run my whole house off it without needing additional software or PC's to run things...
 
Turn off the inside sounders through a relay with a rule:

Whenever Armed Stay
Then Turn On Output Relay 3 or the output relay you are using. This is to break the connection to the inside sounders.

Whenever Disarmed
Then Turn Off Output Relay 3

The Rules are generalized wording.
 
Personally I think the 1RT is the better way to go, but if you already have the 150RT, it basically comes down to if you want the speakers and siren tones in sync. If you use the 150RT, just be sure to do the millimiser mod. I wondered if you could modify the 150RT to bypass the siren driver and drive the speaker instead, but for the price of a new speaker, I just ordered that while I was ordering some additional accessories.

Basically the 1RT and the 150RT are the same thing, with the same speaker - but the 150RT includes the siren driver so you apply voltage. The 1RT skips the siren driver and uses the one built into the M1.

Also, for either one, you will want to use 6 conductors out to the speaker/siren enclosure - figuring 1 pair to monitor the tamper contacts, 1 pair to drive the siren (voltage or speaker), and one pair to drive the strobe... though you could probably make due with 4 if that's what's there as long as the gauge is adequate if using the siren by using 1 ground, then 1 tamper, 1 positive for the siren and a positive for the strobe. Not sure if you could get away with that on the speaker, but there's a decent chance... but 6 wires would be much better.

And of course with outputs, there's options too. Depends on if you're just trying to add this, or if you're making room for other enhancements later. There are 10 voltage outputs off the M1 board, so if some are used, you could do individual relays like the Elk 912 - that's an inexpensive little relay, so you could order just what you need... or use the M1RB to turn 8 of those voltage leads into 8 relays so you have room to grow - it's a simple connector between them that makes it really easy. If the voltage leads are used or you just want more output options, then you can go with the M1XOVR - that gives you the absolute most flexibility by giving you 16 additional outputs, 8 relays and 8 flying leads (which can again go to an M1RB for 8 more relays if you want) - it's just about the most expensive of the options. Depends on if you want to spend $8 or $150 to accomplish this and what else you may wish to do in the future.


The M1XOVR has the added benefit of working off the RS485 bus, so it can be located anywhere with just a piece of Cat5 linking it back to the panel. For instance, here's how I am going with mine:
  • Main Cabinet, Output 1 to speakers - KP12's mounted behind the keypads and others around the home for even audio distribution
  • Output 2 - Elk44 (same speaker that's in the 1RT)
  • Output 3 - Piezo's (GE Screamers, round - cieling mount) throughout the house.
  • Outputs 4-6 not used - only for two-way listen in, which I'm not doing.
  • Outputs 7/8 - Could run a Elk912 relay off one of these for the strobe, but I don't have wiring run yet, so I may run those off the XOVR instead.. probably just 2 open relays for future use there in the closet
  • Outputs 9-16 will be going to the Elk124 8-Channel Recordable Voice Module that's on order... this will be going to the same KP12 speakers, but lets me record in my own sounds for doorbell, phone ringing, and special tones (I'm using simple tones that are slightly different so I know which door was opened without needing voice), and can trigger any other voice announcement I want through the house speakers... Added bonus - independant volume, so it can be a little louder for the important notifications.
Then I have a Cat5 out to the garage, where there's an additional 14" can mounted on the wall (the one that came with the M1G, since I put the M1G in an elk 28" recessed can in the closet) with an M1XOVR and an M1RB giving me more outputs:

  • Outputs 17/18 - Garage Doors
  • Output 19 - Strobe (simple wiring off a 12V power supply to get the strobe outside... easier than running through the attic)
  • Outputs 20/21 - spare until I think of something better
  • Output 22 - Pool Fill (replaced manual valve with industrial sprinkler valve)
  • Outputs 23-27 - Front sprinkler zones 1-5
  • Outputs 28-32 - Rear sprinkler zones 1-5
Probably more info than you care about, but the point is - depending on what you're trying to accomplish in the long run, there are a lot of options... The best thing to do is figure out what your ideal end goals are, and with each incremental purchase, make sure it's going in the right direction. The more you know, the more you can plan how you want to set things up. The M1 is an incredibly flexible and powerful system - and I'm personally trying to run my whole house off it without needing additional software or PC's to run things...

Thanks for all the info, Todd. You have some great ideas. I've ordered a few more parts today, including the Elk-44 to make my 150RT into a 1RT, so I can utilize some of your suggestions.

Kevin
 
Turn off the inside sounders through a relay with a rule:

Whenever Armed Stay
Then Turn On Output Relay 3 or the output relay you are using. This is to break the connection to the inside sounders.

Whenever Disarmed
Then Turn Off Output Relay 3

The Rules are generalized wording.

Thanks, Spanky. I didn't need the exact wording, just that it can be done. Thanks for confirming it.

Kevin
 
Turn off the inside sounders through a relay with a rule:

Whenever Armed Stay
Then Turn On Output Relay 3 or the output relay you are using. This is to break the connection to the inside sounders.

Whenever Disarmed
Then Turn Off Output Relay 3

The Rules are generalized wording.
Seems to me that would work well if you're using Output 2 as voltage and have the screamers on the same output... But personally I'll be using out 1 and 2 as speaker outputs, with Out 3 working as a voltage output (throught the relay and a connection to the power source), so instead of using a relay to cut the connection to the screamers, I'll need a relay to turn them on when the alarm is sounding... In that case, here's the rule I set up:

13 WHENEVER ANY BURGLAR ALARM, ANY AREA TURNS ON
AND Main House (Area 1) IS ARMED AWAY
THEN TURN Output 003 (Out 3) ON FOR 10 [Minutes]
14 WHENEVER ANY BURGLAR ALARM, ANY AREA CUTS OFF
THEN TURN Output 003 (Out 3) OFF

I haven't had a chance to test this yet though, so if anyone knows why it wouldn't work, let me know... Unfortunately I don't get many chances during reasonable hours where the wife and baby are out of the house to test the obnoxiousness of the alarm...
 
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