Thermostat purchase remorse

[dhiren]

Hey Folks,
 
Looking for some opinions about how i should proceed.

In my zeal to add thermostat automation to my current ELK M1 & UPB setup, I  ended up purchasing the 2gig ct100 due to it's low price. I also went ahead and ended buying the ELK-M1XSLZW and Leviton VRCOP-1LW+3 in the hopes that I will add a zwave door lock once i had the thermostat working my elk m1. Since then, I've been reading about the troubles everyone seems to have with zwave and am now hesitiant to get the zwave module and thermostat setup . I'm worried that i just may screw up the whole zwave setup and end up with a broken automation system
 
I'm considering selling all of the above pieces but before i go ahead , I wanted to ask if anyone had a positive experience with a similar setup like mine - Elk M1 + UPB + zwave tstat and maybe a door lock. Also, am i correct in assuming that the zwave setup process is very delicate and breaks often ?
 

 

[picta]

Z-wave can indeed be a finicky technology, but if you want a wireless thermostat AND a door lock, you don't have many options. The only other alternative is zigbee, which has a higher range than zwave and more reliable, but also pricier. I would try to make your setup work with the thermostat, but you may have to get a few extra z-wave "beaming" modules to create a mesh network, or you could opt for zigbee instead.

 

[ano]

Having Zigbee locks ONLY was a bit troublesome because battery operated Zigbee devices like locks have shorter range, but once I added Zigbee thermostats (I have 2 Zigbee, 2 wired) it has been fantastic. Never have any problems and now everything Zigbee works great. Zigbee isn't great for only one or two devices, but once you get some more, its incredibly reliable.

 

[doczaius]

TL;DR:  It's unlikely you will run into issues if your z-wave network is composed of only a few nodes.  I have the following in a 2-story, 2300 sqft home and only run into issues when I'm tinkering.

• 2GIG Go!Control Security/Z-Wave Controller
• Premise (for more advanced rules that the 2GIG cannot handle, as well as other devices.. AVR, DTV etc.)
• VRC0P (Z-Wave)
• CM11A (X10)
• 18 Total Z-Wave Dimmers, 1 Outdoor Binary Z-Wave Switch, 2 Z-Wave Door Locks, 1 Z-Wave Tstat, 4 X10 Binary Switches, 2 X10 RF Motion Detectors.

 
Z-Wave "Issues"

1. Interference: This should be mostly a non-issue as most noisy consumer RF devices have moved to the 2.4 & 5ghz spectrum. But really, who the hell uses cordless landline handsets anymore? Baby monitors could be an issue but babies don't stay babies forever.
2. Network Congestion: Despite the fact that the z-wave spec includes support for 232 devices, manufacturers will often suggest a much smaller number for reliability sake.  Its like the 1 million row limit in excel... yes you can have 1 million rows, is it a good idea? hell no.  The reason for this is that Mesh networks do not scale well.  Ie the more nodes a command has to go through the longer it will take and the increased likelihood that it will encounter issues (interference, collisions etc) along the way.  As a very general rule of thumb, the less complex the network, the more reliable it will be.
3. Range: Range is really influenced by the two items above though typically (according to z-wave alliance) range is appx 90ft.  Walls, people, faraday cages etc can affect range. The z-wave solution for range issues is inherent in its design -- add one or more repeating devices between the controller and the node.  Of course too many nodes and you run into the aforementioned issues.
4. Extended (Manufacturer Specific) Features:  Not all z-wave devices are the same.  Some manufacturers include additional z-wave features, some are very basic.  The foremost example is the ability for a z-wave device to "hail".  This means it tells the controller when someone manipulates the device locally.  For example, you turn a light on with your controller, then turn it off at the switch.. if the switch does not have the ability to hail, as far as the controller is concerned, the light is still on.  This may not seem like a big deal, and really it isn't unless you are trying to do some more advanced event based programming.  For example, if Light is ON then do something. If the controller can't tell if the device is on or off, then rules like this won't really work.  There is a stopgap, however.  Polling is something your controller can do to periodically check the status of devices.  The only problem with polling is that its additional network traffic, and varying to some degree based on the controller software, a very inefficient process that can affect items 1 & 2 above. 

 

[drvnbysound]

Ive got the XSLZW, VRCOP, and Zwave locks... without any issues. I'd say that I've had it working for 6-8 months now.
 
I had no issue with the setup, and have added a number of Zwave devices since my initial installation. I simply added the devices to my original file, and proceeded to update the VRCOP with the new device information. I followed 95% of what's in the Elk documentation (the thing I found that I didn't follow was the "Associations" since none of my dimmers or receptacles support automatic feedback).

 

[ddennerline]

Depending on the distance between the Z-Wave lock and VRC0P, you may have to purchase a VRP03+3. I just added a second Z-Wave lock and cannot control it due to distance. I really wish that Leviton would start building switches with latest 4.52 firmware that supports Z-Wave Security Beaming.
 
In regards, to the CT100, it should work with newer VRUSB/Leviton RF Toolkit. Many ions ago, I couldn’t get the CT100 thermostat enrolled using ControlThink. I purchased this thermostat before M1XSLZW was available and returned it. Instead, I installed a wired OmniStat2 thermostat. Maybe try to install CT100 and report back.
 
If you stick with Leviton devices, I think you will have pretty good success. I just installed a scene controller and two button switch last month and had no problems.

 

[dhiren]

Thank you all for your comments.
 
Unfortunately for me, I am no where close to having my automated thermostat mostly because of me waffling :nutz: between zwave and the newer wifi tstats - nest,ecobee both of which are great as they have built in smarts around away, stay, etc but also give me the comfort of knowing that the tstat will function in case of issues with either ELK or Homeseer. The other reason i got the nest was because it allows me to have some sort of tie into the home automation piece via the HS plugin. Granted, the plugin is reverse engineered and could break any time
 
Update as to my current situation: I ordered the honeywell zwave tstat & the nest after reading about reliability issues with the ct100 t. I intend to use the nest as my plan B incase zWave doesn't work out for me and sell the ct100 and honeywell  :wacko:
 
Will try to setup the zwave network this weekend  :horse: ! wish me luck
 
 

 

[mikei-ma]

I've got the ELK-M1XSLZW and Leviton VRCOP-1LW+3 working well in my house, with very little issues of reliabilty. It's mixed with an insteon/ISY network of switches and keypads, so I can't comment on UPB. I use the RCS TZ45 Thermostats for the three air handlers (on three different floors), and use a CT100 tucked away in a far off room just for remote temperature sensing for logic with my ISY.
 
Just remember to add the thermostats in the order you would like them to appear, it will make things a lot easier to remember and manage.

 

[crossbar]

I've got the ELK-M1XSLZW and Leviton VRCOP-1LW+3 working well in my house, with very little issues of reliabilty. It's mixed with an insteon/ISY network of switches and keypads, so I can't comment on UPB. I use the RCS TZ45 Thermostats for the three air handlers (on three different floors), and use a CT100 tucked away in a far off room just for remote temperature sensing for logic with my ISY.
 
Just remember to add the thermostats in the order you would like them to appear, it will make things a lot easier to remember and manage.

So you are using the CT100 with the M1 then controlled through the M1 by ISY?   Can the M1 read the humidity from the CT100 (Update NO)?  Can the M1 control the Fan via the CT100 (Update YES)? Does the CT100 fit a standard 1 gang electrical box (NO)?
The RCS has 4x7 Day program but can you get the RCS to go back in to program run mode via the M1 after a change has been made via the M1?  Does the RCS fit a standard electrical box?  Thanks.
Also is there any differences with these thermostats in the way they deliver temperature updates to the M1.  I.E. Do they require the polling feature of the M1XSLZW?
 
Update: The CT100 (at least the most recent) will work with the ELK (without polling) see my other posts for more details.