power consumption of automated light switches when OFF

Just being curious, I went into my Homeworks software and turned on a 65W recessed light to 1% via 600W dimmer. So in theory I put 6 watts of power through it and the glow was very noticible. There is no way the dimmers use that much power.

Not to argue with the overall point of 6 watts being too much, but nothing says that the power is being dissipated in the load- my X10 dimmer switches are all nice and toasty warm- warm enough that there are restrictions on how many you can have in a multi-gang box. That says to me that they are dissipating a good chunk of power as heat.

Markd
 
Markd makes an excellent point. The power usage in this case is the power required for the switches' internal electronics. Remember, the switch itself has "power" all the time and has to keep some of its internal electronics active so it can recognize commands all the time.
 
Markd makes an excellent point. The power usage in this case is the power required for the switches' internal electronics. Remember, the switch itself has "power" all the time and has to keep some of its internal electronics active so it can recognize commands all the time.

Yes, As far as I know only switches that don't require a neutral wire feed power through the load when off.
 
With all the talk of power comsumption lately do these numbers make sense? One post has these switches pulling 7 watts the other under 1 watt.

with 7 watts the switches will be pulling more power on average then the lights i am controlling.
that cant be right can it?



Gang,

I thought the numbers I came back were really high too!

I was in a hurry and typing fast, the RadioRA switch were .04A for 4.8watts... correcte below:

Insteon = .06A, 7.2 watts
Lutron RadioRA = .04 watts, 4.8 watts
HAI Gen II UPB = .06A, 7.2 watts
SAI UPB = .06A, 7.2W

I got the current reading by plugging the switches into a Kill-A-Watt meter. If I get some time this weekend I may try the experiment again with a proper meter.

Cheers,
Paul
 
I too have been on the power comsumption kick lately.

I just laugh when I see numbers on things like this. Just think, we could all spend $3 to $5 per switch for a commercial grade toggle which would last forever (practically), and get some good exercise in the process...


Nah...That would not be as cool. :eek:

I have a few Insteon devices myself and never really took the time to consider this when there are 40 or more devices.
 
With all the talk of power comsumption lately do these numbers make sense? One post has these switches pulling 7 watts the other under 1 watt.

with 7 watts the switches will be pulling more power on average then the lights i am controlling.
that cant be right can it?

I think those 7W per switch numbers are wrong. I tested some of my switches (see my post earlier in this thread) and got measurements ranging from about .2W to 1.2W if I remember correctly. Even 1W per switch sounds a little high to me, but 7W is just crazy.

Brett
 
yea considering you could be powering a 15w bulb with it.

The idea of spending $50 on a switch to make sure I shut off 15w light is fine but not when it draws 7w..

Especially considering i leave lights on when I leave maybe a handful of times a month vs 7w 24/7




With all the talk of power comsumption lately do these numbers make sense? One post has these switches pulling 7 watts the other under 1 watt.

with 7 watts the switches will be pulling more power on average then the lights i am controlling.
that cant be right can it?

I think those 7W per switch numbers are wrong. I tested some of my switches (see my post earlier in this thread) and got measurements ranging from about .2W to 1.2W if I remember correctly. Even 1W per switch sounds a little high to me, but 7W is just crazy.

Brett
 
yea considering you could be powering a 15w bulb with it.

The idea of spending $50 on a switch to make sure I shut off 15w light is fine but not when it draws 7w..

Especially considering i leave lights on when I leave maybe a handful of times a month vs 7w 24/7




With all the talk of power comsumption lately do these numbers make sense? One post has these switches pulling 7 watts the other under 1 watt.

with 7 watts the switches will be pulling more power on average then the lights i am controlling.
that cant be right can it?

I think those 7W per switch numbers are wrong. I tested some of my switches (see my post earlier in this thread) and got measurements ranging from about .2W to 1.2W if I remember correctly. Even 1W per switch sounds a little high to me, but 7W is just crazy.

Brett

They don't use 7 watts. Put away all your equipment. Put away your kill-o-watts. Lets use common sense.

Put a 7 watt night-light bulb in an outlet box and run it for several hours. Touch the box. Pretty hot? Now, hook up a switch to a 60W bulb, turn it off for a few hours. Now touch? Hmm, not very hot. Try it with a 4 watt night light bulb. Still not as hot as that? My guess is my UPB switches draw about a watt or less. That's about $0.69 a year at $0.08/KWH. So in 100 years, the switches will cost the same in electricity as the device cost.
 
I'm guessing that the 'Large Hadron Collider ' will eventually solve this mystery. The only (un-scientific) thing that I can add is that my old, first generation, Insteon, in wall dimmers were always warm to the touch. The replacement Vizia-RF switches never got warmer than ambient temperature. I do believe the P=I*E thing. Worrying about the power factor for a dimmer is a bit of over kill. For loads like refers and AC units that is a consideration, I cannot believe that the little power converters in HA wall switches are inductive enough to worry about the power factor.

My own silly opinion, ;)

ken
 
I cannot believe that the little power converters in HA wall switches are inductive enough to worry about the power factor.

My own silly opinion, ;)

ken

No, not inductive at all. Very capacitive. Remember that a switch electronics run on 5 volts. Switches run on 120v. They could use a transformer, and maybe some do, but many use a capacitor to drop the voltage. Its cheaper. These devices have a very low power factor, and this is the reason the "power" calculation varies so much between the P=IxV people and the P=IxVxPF people. At least this is true when the switch is off.

If it doesn't get as hot as a 7 watt bulb, its not consuming 7 watts.
 
No, not inductive at all. Very capacitive. Remember that a switch electronics run on 5 volts. Switches run on 120v. They could use a transformer, and maybe some do, but many use a capacitor to drop the voltage. Its cheaper. These devices have a very low power factor, and this is the reason the "power" calculation varies so much between the P=IxV people and the P=IxVxPF people. At least this is true when the switch is off.

If it doesn't get as hot as a 7 watt bulb, its not consuming 7 watts.

That woke up a few brain cells. It has been a few decades since I went through electronics school but I do remember the power factor being important in the equation. The heat comparison is probably the sanest way to look at it. ;)

ken
 
That woke up a few brain cells. It has been a few decades since I went through electronics school but I do remember the power factor being important in the equation. The heat comparison is probably the sanest way to look at it. ;)

ken

This brought back memories for me. Many years ago when I was in the early years of getting my EE degree, I had this class that covered basic electricity, power factors, etc. The class was fine, but the lab was unique. It was 4 hours long, and during it, no student was allowed to speak with any other student. Each week, the teacher would bring in some type of apparatus into the room, maybe with inductors or capacitors, or maybe just a bunch of light bulbs, or a motor. He would do "something" like unscrew a light bulb, and something unusual and unexpected would occur demonstrating something he had taught.

If you could figure it out, you could go up to the teacher and whisper it to him, and you were right, you could leave and you got an "A." If you were wrong, you had to go back to your seat and rethink it. If you were still in the lab after 4 hours, you received an "F."

I can't say I always got A's, but usually if you took the common sense approach, you could guess it. If you were one of those people that just crunched the numbers in their scientific calculator and just spit out the answer, they were almost always wrong. I guess it was at that point I learned, that sure, start with a calculator if you want, but before finishing, see if the answer makes sense. Does that bulb use 30 watts or 30,000 watts because you screwed up the decimal? Over the years this approach has saved me lots of problems.
 
I plugged a SwitchLinc Dimmer into my Kill-A-Watt for a while, and after 19 hours I glanced at it and it's showing .02 KWH cumulative. I believe this means it's used 20 or so watts after 19 hours. Correct?
 
I plugged a SwitchLinc Dimmer into my Kill-A-Watt for a while, and after 19 hours I glanced at it and it's showing .02 KWH cumulative. I believe this means it's used 20 or so watts after 19 hours. Correct?

Correct. Which also means that is uses just a little over 1 watt.
 
It would be interesting to know if the devices draw more power when they are repeating messages than when they are idle (no traffic). It is possible that one brand might consume more power than another based on the method of transmitting a message. Even the type of LED's used from brand to brand will affect the power consumption.
 
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