Lists of bad/problematic z-wave devices?

[icellama21]

Hey all,

I'm building a zwave application that requires high reliability. Are there any lists of z-wave devices that have interoperability/compliance/spec problems? I'm primarily interested in reliability of value changes and status updates. What is the best source for evaluating potential devices?

Regards,

Jason

 

[drvnbysound]

None that I've seen.
 
Having said that, my only complaint is that various manufactures have selected to include various portions of the technology/protocol into their devices. For example, there are some dimmers that include Instant Status feedback (e.g. when used manually), while others don't. Similarly, some support beaming... and others don't.

 

[Deane Johnson]

Jason, I don't know if this is helpful in your quest or not, but my experience has been that the lower costs deviced can be problamatic.  I specificaly have found the GE made devices such as those sold for a while by Radio Shack to be fairly unreliable.  Enough so that I discarded the ones I had purchased.

 

[drvnbysound]

Jason, I don't know if this is helpful in your quest or not, but my experience has been that the lower costs deviced can be problamatic.  I specificaly have found the GE made devices such as those sold for a while by Radio Shack to be fairly unreliable.  Enough so that I discarded the ones I had purchased.

 
Those are the exact ones that I've been using for about 2 years now... and I haven't had any issues
 
My only complaint is that they don't support instant feedback; although they do support beaming.

 

[picta]

I'm building a zwave application that requires high reliability.

 
Unfortunately z-wave application can only happen to be reliable by luck, because it is extremely sensitive to metal obstructions. The cheaper brand switches will have harder time compensating for noise, but the expensive ones are not immune to it either. If you want a reliable application, especially with more than 30 devices, look to other technologies than z-wave.

 

[ddennerline]

I think the question is how much do you want to spend for higher reliablity. AO is selling Evolve (Z-Wave) devices. The one Evolve plug I have installed hasn't fried itself in the six months it been installed. The Evolve switches are cheaper than Vizia+. For more than three years, the Vizia+ switches I installed are still clicking away.
 
I am curious why the 30 Z-Wave device limit. Leviton documentation indicates that 48-64 devices should work correctly in a 2000 sq/ft house. I am at 20 lights now and cross-your-fingers 30 doesn't cause any problems.
 
I have read some Vera posts about much larger installations with a wide variety of devices. Z-Wave reliabillty is a function of the controller software, and it's ability to deal with different devices along with their profiles/classes.

 

[drvnbysound]

Understand that the Evolve switches do not support Instant Feedback, so if you use them manually, your controller won't know about it and reflect it's current state.

 

[batwater]

Understand that the Evolve switches do not support Instant Feedback, so if you use them manually, your controller won't know about it and reflect it's current state.

 
The Evolve switches will repeat the Z-Wave security protocol. I've got one on a hallway light for that reason. So it's a trade-off, in this case status is not necessary to how I use it.
 
Once Yale releases their new Z-Wave NFC enabled Real Living locks end of Q2 (I confirmed on their Facebook page) that will go in next and I'll already have my mesh repeater in place. 
 
I have several Wayne Dalton (older units, discontinued, avoid if you find) light switches only because they are 2 wire and don't require the additional neutral.  Problem is they are cheaply made, I've had 2 fail on me. They also require a minimum 40 watt load and can only be used with incandescent bulbs.
 
-Ben

 

[picta]

I think the question is how much do you want to spend for higher reliablity. AO is selling Evolve (Z-Wave) devices. The one Evolve plug I have installed hasn't fried itself in the six months it been installed. The Evolve switches are cheaper than Vizia+. For more than three years, the Vizia+ switches I installed are still clicking away.
 
I am curious why the 30 Z-Wave device limit. Leviton documentation indicates that 48-64 devices should work correctly in a 2000 sq/ft house. I am at 20 lights now and cross-your-fingers 30 doesn't cause any problems.
 
I have read some Vera posts about much larger installations with a wide variety of devices. Z-Wave reliabillty is a function of the controller software, and it's ability to deal with different devices along with their profiles/classes.

 
While the controller quality is definitely important, it can only do so much with z-wave devices. They have very low range compare to zigbee devices and any device outside of 30' clear line of site and no interference will have to rely on the neighboring nodes to communicate with controller. If you have any metal objects nearby, you may have to add devices just for the signal to go around the obstruction.
 
You can build a large z-wave network with patience and time and it can even work for a while. Until something changes: device goes bad, light bulb burns out, you add a new device, relocate or remove existing device, you buy a new car, replace your fridge, move a metal toolbox etc etc. Sometimes the only way to repair the network is to completely re-build it from scratch, and it will again work for a while until ... you get the idea.  The failure probability will increase with the number of devices, and also if you have to poll the network, use scenes or mix devices of different manufacturers.

 

[Deane Johnson]

picta, you speak words of wisdom.
 
I have a few Z-Wave devices, but I will admit I'm not as excited about it as I would like to be.  My old PCS X-10 switches are about 100% reliable.  My Z-Wave system is 75%-80% reliable.  As you say, change something in the environment and it gets cranky.
 
So, where does one go from here.  I don't have nuetral in all boxes.  The other issue is available drivers for the software.  My current software is Elve, but that may have to change in the future if someone doesn't take it over from John.

 

[drvnbysound]

The Evolve switches will repeat the Z-Wave security protocol. I've got one on a hallway light for that reason. So it's a trade-off, in this case status is not necessary to how I use it.
 
Once Yale releases their new Z-Wave NFC enabled Real Living locks end of Q2 (I confirmed on their Facebook page) that will go in next and I'll already have my mesh repeater in place. 
 
I have several Wayne Dalton (older units, discontinued, avoid if you find) light switches only because they are 2 wire and don't require the additional neutral.  Problem is they are cheaply made, I've had 2 fail on me. They also require a minimum 40 watt load and can only be used with incandescent bulbs.
 
-Ben

 
I'm not sure why you quoted me... I didn't mention anything about beaming or the security protocol. I stated that the Evolve switches do not have the capability of Instant Status (e.g 2-way reporting); see the chart here: http://store.homeseer.com/store/HomeSeer-Z-Wave-Dimming-Wall-Switch-Comparison-W16.aspx

 

[drvnbysound]

I must be in the minority... I've got 20+ Zwave devices and have 0 issues with reliability h34r:

 

[batwater]

I'm not sure why you quoted me... I didn't mention anything about beaming or the security protocol. I stated that the Evolve switches do not have the capability of Instant Status (e.g 2-way reporting); see the chart here: http://store.homeseer.com/store/HomeSeer-Z-Wave-Dimming-Wall-Switch-Comparison-W16.aspx

 
Just observing that the Evolve switches bring some value to the table besides instant status, did not refute what you stated, was agreeing. Regardless not what the OP was looking for, my apologies if this troubled you. Nice chart BTW, thanks for sharing.

 

[drvnbysound]

Sure. I have the GE/Jasco switches which have the same features. They support beaming, and work well with my deadbolts and thermostat. As stated above, I have 0 reliability issues. My only issue is that I don't get reliable status of a particular dimmer or switch, which is reason enough for me to consider other technologies (e.g. UPB)... though I'd still leave plenty of Zwave receptacles in place to maintain a good mesh for my door locks and thermostat.