Homeseer - questions?

[ja3hawk]

Lots and lots of questions here.
 
So I've decided I'm going to use homeseer as my controller running on a Windows Server 2008 r2 box. I'm an IT guy so this felt more natural to me than buying a dedicated piece of hardware. Anyways, here are my questions.
 
I'm new to HA, if it sounds like I'm making some bad assumptions let me know!!! It will save me time and effort in the future.
 
Other than the homeseer software, wont I need something to connect to the PC to make it talk to Z-Wave devices? Which product is recommended and reliable? I saw the Z-Troller, is that the way to go? What if I want to mix in some insteon or x-10 would I need aditional PC interfaces? Other than the 599 pro software and plugins will i need to buy more licenses? I haven't other costs on their website...
 
 
Are these Z-Wave devices just like any other receptacle that would be installed in your home? Does a single Z-wave switch make the lights on that switch controllable, kinda like a zone? I'm planning on using dimmable LED bulbs. Do I need to look for a special kind or any gotchas?
 
I want to avoid using any batteries? Is this possible?
 
I keep seeing comments on homeseer website that a dimmer can connect with 5 devices? What does that mean?
I see features regarding reporting status? What is that?
 
Out of these what product would you all recommend and why. Money is almost no object because I'm saving by DIY.
 
 
Dimmers
 
Switches
 
Plug Receptacles
 
Door Locks
 
Water usage valve
 
 
How is the software for customizing an interface for tablets i.e. IOS and Android.?? Has anyone used the SONOS plugin?
 
I'm about to dump a lot of money into a new build for our new home (4000 sq ft) and I just want to make sure I'm looking at the right stuff. Thank you!!!!!

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Well, since money is no object:
 
Get HS Pro and (my understanding) is you get all of the plugins included with it. 
 
You can run HS on a computer, but you may want to consider a dedicated system like a HomeSeer Pro.
 
Most of us here use hardware for critical functions such as security and related notification/use needs.  The automation software of choice (HomeSeer, CQC, Elve, PowerHome, etc...) is then used to tie disparate systems together and for other items such as touch screen displays, remote access, and other ginger bread needs.  Of course, some of these things can be done via the dedicated controller also, but you will find a bit more versatility (IMO) using the HA software.
 
Speaking of security, you didn't mention a system in your above post. Which one are you going with as this could also be used as the main hardware controller?
 
I'm not sure on your Z-Wave switch questions.  The Z-Wave switch will replace your existing light switch, so any light that was controlled via that original switch will be controlled by the new Z-Wave enabled one.  This is why you need to make sure the switch can handle the 'entire' wattage load that it will be controlling.
 
You can get plug-in modules to control items from an outlet as well.  You have to use the proper Z-Wave product depending on what you are switching (i.e. light dimmers, appliances, etc...).  I'm not sure about LED capabilities.
 
I know Vizia RF+ makes a good Z-Wave switch, and there may be better ones out there (money being 'no object').
 
HomeSeer will let you customize touch screen interfaces with their HSTouch product.  I believe this comes included with the 'Pro' version.  I believe it is also compatible with both android and iphone.
 
"Reporting status" means that if a switch is turned on manually, it's new status is broadcast over the Z-Wave network.
 
There are a ton of Z-Wave enabled door locks, though I believe most use batteries (due to the difficulty of running power to doors).
 
There are a few options for the Z-Wave interface to a computer, Z-Troller being one of them.  If you use any other technology, you will have to get that particular hardware interface for the computer.  Here is a selection matrix on the Z-Wave ones on HomeSeer's site.
 
You can enable say, a main controller to do multiple technologies.
 
Hope this is a start and I'm sure will lead to more questions.

 

[pete_c]

Relating to running HS on Windows Server 2008 r2:
 
I tested Homeseer Pro on WIndows Home Server 2011 some 2-3 years ago. 
 
In order to get 32 bit SAPI running I had to modify the OS a bit and because of this I abandoned my efforts.  
 
Microsoft's new al la carte feature set really did ding their last WHS endeavor. 
 
That said no wonder you could purchase it for as little as $50 because that is all that its worth.
 
If you are wanting to stick to running Homeseer on your 2008 R2 box I would personally create an XP or 2003 32 bit VM instead.
 
Here I have Homeseer Pro and Homeseer Standard running on separate boxes (2 of them) and left them at W2003 32 bit. 
 
The HS Standard box is running virginal like with only a Homeseer Z-Troller connected and 10 Z-Wave devices.  I have had issues with just the Homeseer to Z-Troller stuff running current beta V.79.  I think that the new release of Homeseer 3 will make the Z-Troller / Z-Wave pieces modular and part of the base Homeseer application.
 
The HS Pro box is running with some 18 serial devices plus a few USB devices plus some hardware on the network.  (maybe some 25 IO devices).  It is talking X10, UPB and Insteon still these days.  I do have some 8-10 HSTouch clients connected to it 24/7.  It is doing OK running HS beta V.76.  I want to break it so am pushing it a bit with many Homeseer plugins, scripts, events and variables.  I can break it.
 
This morning I cannot post anything to the Homeseer forum while logged in; so it appears that they are having issues there.

 

[ja3hawk]

You can run HS on a computer, but you may want to consider a dedicated system like a HomeSeer Pro.
 
Most of us here use hardware for critical functions such as security and related notification/use needs.  The automation software of choice (HomeSeer, CQC, Elve, PowerHome, etc...) is then used to tie disparate systems together and for other items such as touch screen displays, remote access, and other ginger bread needs.  Of course, some of these things can be done via the dedicated controller also, but you will find a bit more versatility (IMO) using the HA software.
 
Speaking of security, you didn't mention a system in your above post. Which one are you going with as this could also be used as the main hardware controller?

 
 
I know a lot of my questions seemed elementary so thanks for the guidance. I'm going to plan on buying HomeSeer Pro. If I run it on a dedicated computer it should be reliable. In general I think Windows tends to make products less reliable when you start adding more roles to the server. Plus it would be nice to save the extra dough of having to buy the HomeSeer dedicated hardware.  I know I said money was no object  
 
I haven't looked into specific hardware for security and in this part of your post is where I start to get confused. I thought HomeSeer would be acting as the controller for everything or is it strictly just a front end to help with automation? I feel like there is overlap in the roles of different products. Also you mentioned that most of you here use hardware for critcial funtions? Could you elaborate? Are you referring to something like an ElkM1? I looked at those and I gotta say, it starts to look a like a much more intimidating project... 
 
 
 

If you are wanting to stick to running Homeseer on your 2008 R2 box I would personally create an XP or 2003 32 bit VM instead.
 
Here I have Homeseer Pro and Homeseer Standard running on separate boxes (2 of them) and left them at W2003 32 bit. 
 
The HS Standard box is running virginal like with only a Homeseer Z-Troller connected and 10 Z-Wave devices.  I have had issues with just the Homeseer to Z-Troller stuff running current beta V.79.  I think that the new release of Homeseer 3 will make the Z-Troller / Z-Wave pieces modular and part of the base Homeseer application.

 
 
I'll probably use a dedicated server 2003 computer as mentioned above. So is the Z-troller still the recommended way to connect HomeSeer to a Z-Wave network. I mean, is there anything better out there? I want whatever is going to be reliable. My wife will kill me if I spend 3-5 grand on a system I'm constantly fighting bugs with. Any other guidance would be awesome.
 
 
 
I guess what I should have done from the beginning is state what my ultimate goals are with HomeSeer:
 
Definite needs:
I want to control lighting zones, motorized locks, support for sensors (temp, motion) with alerts, IP cameras with alerts for motion, thermostat/hvac control.  ( all controllable from tablet, smartphone or touchscreen PC)
 
I tend to like my home theater and video to be seperate from the solutions I'm seeing for HA. Also, I'm not sure how important integrating a security system for me would be but I would like the option for the future.
 
Last note here, I plan on running lots and lots of cat6 networking for the house. What other kinds of wiring should I run even though I may or may not use it right away? I know I said this would be Z-Wave heavy, I just want to future proof myself.
 
Thank in advance!!

 

[Tink]

Tooting our own horn but the Z-Troller is field upgradeable, has one of the best RF ranges/characteristics (because it is not shoe-horned into a USB form factor), and since it has buttons and a display and can work disconnected from HomeSeer, it prevents you having to have a separate handheld remote to install devices.    HomeSeer works with all of the Z-Wave remotes that use the standard Z-Wave Serial API, which means that only the Leviton interface is excluded.
 
Speaking of Leviton... Many of their Z-Wave products are not certified or failed certification.  If you want the best features, go with the Cooper-Wiring products, which are pricey but end up selling for about the same as Vizia RF products.  If you do not need instant status (switch notifies HomeSeer when it is operated locally) then there are a lot of less expensive products out there, but Leviton and Cooper are two of the very few companies who have a license for patents held by Lutron dealing with instant status.   The Cooper 5-button wall controllers also have a way for HomeSeer to control individual button LEDs/status, which means in HomeSeer you can get discrete Scene On/Off signals from each button.  The Leviton controllers do not have this ability.  In their scene controllers, when you turn on one scene, any other scene that was on gets turned off, and when you turn off a scene, HomeSeer has no way of knowing which one was turned off.  In their zone controllers, you can turn on multiple zones (scenes) at once, but there is still a limitation in that when turning off a scene/zone, there is no way to know which one it was.  So the Leviton controllers being at most 4 buttons, you can get 4 discrete signals (for On) and 1 additional signal (Off).
 
Be careful when buying devices that claim to be able to control scenes - the term is used loosely and when it does NOT involve the scene command classes, then it just means that the controller can send ON/OFF signals to several Z-Wave devices.  When HomeSeer is included with one of these, it receives the signal, but because the same signal is sent regardless of what button you press when the controller has multiple buttons, HomeSeer can only view it as a single signal, not a different one for each button.  Only TRUE scene controllers (such as the Leviton and Cooper wall controllers mentioned above) can send a different signal from each discrete button.   So for example, if you wanted to use a wall controller to tell HomeSeer to play music, Next track on the music, etc., you can do that with a true scene controller, but not one of those controllers that "does scenes".   Check out http://products.z-wavealliance.org for a product and make sure it shows the SCENE_CONFIGURATION command class (for a controller).

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Keep in mind there are a LOT of ways to go about security and automation needs.  You will see opinions from 'professional' security installers here that EASILY get heartburn over techniques and methods that are not to the letter of the code!  You will also see people completely ignore all of what is routinely believed to be common sense approach to a reasonable system, and of course everything in between!
 
So with that I will give you MY opinion and methodology techniques, which certainly should not be taken as the 'standard' but; it is based on years of experience with various systems and methods.
 
I found that my old version of HomeSeer is VERY reliable running on a dedicated old XP system, but NOT soooo reliable that I would trust it (or ANY software running on a computer, not knocking HomeSeer) monitoring my home security.  Plus, I really need to make sure that the integration with my family's daily use is rock solid, or else you will be getting into another level of hassles and dis-satisfaction!
 
So I selected a professional grade 'true' home security system that also can easily integrate into my home automation needs.  This lets me place easily accessible and easy to use keypads and touchscreen displays around the house as well as monitor my system remotely via all of my Android phones, as well as email notifications on critical events such as fire and burglary.
 
Yes, you could use HomeSeer to monitor say Z-Wave door, window, and motion sensors, and use touch pad interfaces and remotes  and phones for arming/disarming, as well as notifications, but the Elk is just more polished, and again, IMO more reliable for these applications.
 
Now, I mentioned that this controller will also lend well to my automation needs so let me explain.  The Elk also lets me monitor non-security inputs such as outside gate monitors, washer and dryer status, as well as my (don't laugh) X-10 lighting system (though it is compatible with other lighting technologies).  Some people even use it to control their sprinkler systems, thermostats, open/close garage doors, water leak detection, etc...
 
Now, I also have other systems in my home that I installed such as a Caller ID box (old NetCallerID) for my phone line, an analog to digital device to monitor temperatures and garage door sensor (long story, see How-To), and other things such as sprinkler controller, Ocelot PLC,  and Davis Wizard weather station.
 
HomeSeer is used to provide an interface to ALL of those devices.  Now, I can write logic or create simple events in HomeSeer so I can do things like control my sprinklers based on wind speed and temperature.  It ties all these otherwise disparate systems together.
 
I can also do more elaborate notifications and touchscreen displays with HomeSeer (in my case combined with Main Lobby) as well.

 

[pete_c]

I'll probably use a dedicated server 2003 computer as mentioned above. So is the Z-troller still the recommended way to connect HomeSeer to a Z-Wave network?
 
I want whatever is going to be reliable. My wife will kill me if I spend 3-5 grand on a system I'm constantly fighting bugs with. Any other guidance would be awesome.

 
Yes
 
The WAF factor plays a piece in much of the justifications for this and for that relating to HA. 
 
BTW here too I am using a separate piece of hardware for my security.  I utilize the HAI OPII panel. 
 
That said HAI OPII also talks Z-Wave via a Leviton serial controller.  I am always playing and have one HAI OPII Z-Wave network and one Homeseer Z-Wave network.  Mostly just playing with the two networks RF footprint mostly. 
 
Homeseer also is configured and running X-10 via a CM11A  and UPB via an SA serial UPB controller and Insteon via an Insteon serial PLM. (same with the HAI OPII panel except X10 talks via an XTB device and UPB is talking via an HAI UPB serial device and no Insteon).
 
HVAC is using an HAI Omnistat2 connected to my HAI Omni Pro II. (it is a major WAF factor thing)
 
I am into weather and have been playing with a Davis Vantage Vue in one house and a Fine Offset weather station at another house.  I have two Homeseer plugins which uses the data from the weather stations which are though both connected to their own boxes running Cumulus. 
 
Like Dan I am also using a NetCID serial device (two of them) with Homeseer.  That and I also utilize a Way2Call device with HSPhone which basically is a "do everything" device for your phone line.  IE: today a doorbell rings the phones in the house with a "doorbell" and time CID.
 
I've never utilized Homeseer to automate my multimedia.  I do have Homeseer talking to my Russound zoned audio.  I also have the HAI OPII talking to same said devices.  Control though is mostly via the HAI Omnitouch screens and KPLs here and there.
 
I would personally run much cable and then some. 

 

[ja3hawk]

Wow thank you guys... So is installing a security system such as the ElkM1 or HAI OPII something an inexperienced do it yourselfer can tackle? I must admit I'm not capable of writing code but I am good at following guides and how-to's. I can learn much of this as I go along I just want to prepare myself for what I may come across.
 
Also, any suggestions on future proof wiring. For example, on the wall controllers, what should I run there for power? It doesn't appear that the actual circuit runs through these kinds of panels but they must need some sort of power to operate so what is that? (edit: Found this: The Aspire RF Scene Keypad utilizes existing 120V/AC 60Hz standard) Sounds like it needs to be run into an existing power circuit.)
 
What does this mean: Can be associated with up to 5 devices? Can someone explain what association means? I'm assuming were talking about the characteristics of Z-wave mesh network. All devices do not need to necessarily see every other device in the network as long as they are all connected at some point?
 
Again I'm making more assumptions so just correct me if I'm wrong.
 
 
From the discussion here I think my approach will be obtaining HomeSeer Pro with the Z-Troller and test it with some devices at my existing house. Kinda get comfortable with some lighting and locks and maybe an IP camera and motion detector. In the new house I will extend these throughout the home and consider adding a security system/controller. (maybe getting that professionally installed) It sounds like I need to pay attention to which security system is chose to ensure it will integrate with the rest of my Z-wave network. Will it be a waste of money for me to buy the IP cameras and motion detectors since the security system will likely include those items? Thanks!!!

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Check out our ultimate wiring guide for wiring suggestions for your new home.
 
Also, HERE is an older How-To that is used for installing a home security system that will show you the basics.  If this seems like a feasible task and you are able to strip, handle and install wiring, plus mechanically able to drill holes, install mounting boxes, and that like, you would most likely have the skills for installing a security system.  I didn't mind drilling holes in my window frames, but this gives some people discomfort in that it may void warranties on their new windows.  If that is the case, just use external sensors.
 
It is wise to run security wiring and install the door and window sensors before drywall is up (a lot easier).  I would also test those sensors with the wiring/panel's location as well as once drywall is up, that is all hidden.
 
There are a lot of posts here that describe the various aspects and experiences of forum member's installing their own security systems.
 
I don't think it would be a waste of money getting IP cameras, as those are versatile for just about any system.  The motions, depending on your final decision, may or may not be used, but they are just not that expensive and probably worth the purchase just to get your feet wet.

 

[pete_c]

So is installing a security system such as the ElkM1 or HAI OPII something an inexperienced do it yourselfer can tackle?

 
No.
 
Its the same for any security system. 
 
Personally I would as stated above concentrate on your HA infrastructure.
 
Read here about the various technologies being utilized today relating to automation in general.   
 
Mostly the forum has DIY folks that have been playing with HA for a long time using just about every technology available today.  
 
You will get very unbiased and biased views of whatever technologies do exist today and reasons for said views.
 
Personally I do not know that one technology is better than another relating to HA in general and I am still learning. 

 

[manxam]

As per your question regarding the Sonos plugin. I'm one of the two original beta testers for the plugin and purchased it immediately when it went live. It's a 100% fully functional and controls every aspect of your Sonos system. Any additions, changes, fixes are handled EXTREMELY quickly by Dirk the developer (In fact, my experience is that it often happens the same day. You just can't beat the kind of support).
 
For Zwave I'm running a Ztroller and have no complaints. It's HS' product so is therefore the most supported. The other is the Aeon Labs usb stick and, while this unit is more compact and plugs directly into usb vs the Ztroller's serial, it doesn't support the "installer class". What this means is that you cannot backup or restore your network in case of issues. Believe me, this WILL become necessary for you at some point. It's not too big of deal if you only have a couple of nodes but once you reach 10+ you'll not want to set it up from scratch again. Every time a node is removed and re-added it changes it's device/house code which means going into HS and changing all events and scripts that rely on this code.
 
"Can be associated with up to 5 devices": This means that the switch can DIRECTLY control up to 5 other devices without a home automation controller such as Homeseer. These devices can usually be configured to turn on itself and the other associated nodes with a single tap OR to turn itself on with a single tap and devices in the 2nd association with a double tap, devices in the 3rd association with a triple tap, etc. This is actually really handy for a master bedroom "double tap to turn off all lights on the main floor" type setup which is what I use it for.
 
Keep in mind that, unlike insteon and UPB, zwave switches don't report multiple taps of the switch back to the automation controller. If the switch is on and you tap it on again Homeseer will never see the second tap so you cannot generate events off of a double tap, triple tap, etc. Only by the association as per the above.

 

[pete_c]

In the midwest I did DIY the post construction wireing for security. 
 
It was very time consuming and I went really slow making one run a project typically autonomously from any of the others.
 
We did new construction in Florida and the contractor did include the security wiring from a local security vendor. 
 
Said vendor did do a great job covering every window, door, et all in the house.  I did though instruct that all of the alarm wires terminate in the "wiring closet" area closet where as the company originally was terminating the cabling in the master bedroom walk in closet. 
 
I am more into wire's (a personal preference) than wireless for HA lighting such that today all of the in gang boxes switches are UPB.  Recently went from double switches in double gang boxes to single switches with multiple toggles.  The management software of said UPB switches is amazing, very granular and very funtional.  WAF has been high.  That said though I do have Z-Wave and Insteon and X10 in the house.  
 
My current preferences though is not to utilize any one means for all automation but rather niche the technology pieces for what works best for me.
 
The HVAC and automation is different.  Things did happen over the years which did cause some low WAF.  Software control was fine until little "glitches" would automatically peg the thermostat to 90 F years ago.  That said today there is a serial wire to the thermostat and it is and will remain connected to the HAI OPII panel, scheduling et al.  Mostly though high on the WAF is that my wife can wake to any part of the house and adjust the thermostat circumventing the automation schedules. 
 
I do this today with my HAI OPII panel and Homeseer working accordingly just fine together.