Home Monitoring with M1G

[Hansueli]

I have an Elk M1G system and would like to use it to control some lights and other electrical systems with it. I understand that there are numerous monitoring systems that could work with the Elk system: Like X10, Z-Wave, Insteon, Zigbee, Lutron and such. These are systems that receive the control information either via the existing power lines or via radio signal.
May I kindly ask for your opinion what you think is most practical and economic?

Many thanks, Hans

 

[WayneW]

Hans, welcome to CT.
I have been happy with my Elk controlling Insteon via the ISY device. There is no perfect or easy answer to that question, so you will get lots of opinions, but it all depends upon your desires, etc. Will this be used in a 110VAC 60hz environment?

 

[sic0048]

Well to make some blanket generalizations (which are always open to critique)....

X10 - very old technology with spotty reliability due to powerline noise. The newer technology systems listed below seem to work much better

Insteon - a really nice concept with spotty implimentation. There have been quality control issues that have plagued Insteon for years. Personally I've lost trust with that system and would not recommend it. But while many users have had issues, not everyone has, so the system can work. But my humble opinion is that it just isn't worth the risk/investment if you are starting a new system from scratch.

Zigbee & Z-Wave - two newer technologies that might sound similar, but are very different. Zigbee and Z-wave are not compatible with each other and many times not compatable with other similar systems - i.e. one brand of Zigbee devices may not work with another brand of Zigbee devices. Seems to give good reliability as long as there are enough devices to create a mesh network. In other words, it might not work if you only want to install two devices on the opposite side of the house from each other depending on how much distance it is between the two. But reliability and distance goes up as you add more devices.

Lutron (RadioRA or RadioRA II) - arguably seems to be the most reliable wireless lighting control system out there right now. RadioRA II is much better than the first system. Cost is slightly higher than many other wireless systems, but not absurdly higher.

Hopefully that gives you some ideas to run with. The types of devices offered in each system also greatly varies. For example, while I really like the Centralite Jetstream System (Zigbee based), it is fairly limited in the devices being offered (no fan module for example). Therefore it might not cover all the goals you require of a lighting system.

PS - for full disclosure, I do not have any lighting system myself (so I am not trying to push a specific system or brand). I have done a lot of reading and research myself because I would like to add lighting to my automation system, but haven't pulled the trigger on anything yet.

 

[apostolakisl]

I have an Elk M1G system and would like to use it to control some lights and other electrical systems with it. I understand that there are numerous monitoring systems that could work with the Elk system: Like X10, Z-Wave, Insteon, Zigbee, Lutron and such. These are systems that receive the control information either via the existing power lines or via radio signal.
May I kindly ask for your opinion what you think is most practical and economic?

Many thanks, Hans

I have Insteon. It is OK. Smarthome has had serious quality control problems in the past which continue to plague my system. It is not 100% reliable. The ISY is the most attractive part of the Insteon.

X10 is pretty outdated in its technology and capabilities and not very reliable.

I don't know how zigbee and z-wave are coming. I think they are slowly adding stuff.

 

[Lagerhead]

Well to make some blanket generalizations (which are always open to critique)....

X10 . . .
Insteon . . .
Zigbee & Z-Wave. . .
Lutron (RadioRA or RadioRA II). . .

Hopefully that gives you some ideas to run with. . .

Isn't there also something called UPB? I once heard about this.

BTW, I have X-10 and it works very well in my environment.

 

[sic0048]

Isn't there also something called UPB? I once heard about this.

Isn't that what you plug into your computer??

Just kidding.

 

[JonW]

Isn't there also something called UPB? I once heard about this.

BTW, I have X-10 and it works very well in my environment.

UPB (Universal Powerline Bus) is very reliable. I have about 60 devices installed and NEVER have issues. OK, I once had an issue with my 58" plasma, but a filter fixed that. I run multiple servers, PC's, laptops, UPS's, etc. in my house and the only item that (intermittently) caused issues with UPB was the plasma. I even have multiple UPB devices downstream from some pool pumps and they work 100% reliable.

 

[pete_c]

Welcome to the forum Hans.

I started to play with X10 in the late 1970's. It worked OK for me until the 2000's. I decided then to try Insteon and switched out all of my lighting switches to Insteon/X10. I kept using X10 communications for my lighting via my automation panel. Still works fine for me.

Today communicate via Insteon only with software running on my HA server. Just recently have decided to update my lighting. At this time most likely my direction will be to go to UPB for most/all of the in wall switches. I am also playing with Z-Wave (originally not intending to utilize RF) but have installed a bit right now. So right now my house is kind of a sandbox with X10, Insteon, UPB and Z-Wave running. They all play well together that I can tell right now. Will be doing migration slowly.

 

[Hansueli]

Hello Wayne
Yes, it will be used here in Colorado. Can you please tell me a little more about this ISY device? As you can see I am a true "newbie". Thanks again kindly. Hans

Hans, welcome to CT.
I have been happy with my Elk controlling Insteon via the ISY device. There is no perfect or easy answer to that question, so you will get lots of opinions, but it all depends upon your desires, etc. Will this be used in a 110VAC 60hz environment?

 

[Hansueli]

Hello, I want to thank you for your great overview. Exactly the direction I had in mind when I posted my inquiry. I must agree with you regarding Inseon. It seems to be a system that is affordable but has malfunctioned too many times for too many customers. Now one important question I would like to ask: You gave me some background to a variety of different control systems. Since I am using the Elk M1G which of these systems is "supported" by Elk? In other words, are there M1G-interface-modules available for all these systems? I know there is an X10 interface available and there is a Z-wave interface, but what about the other RF based systems and Zigbee?
I would appreciate your valued input.
Many thanks in advance, Hans

Well to make some blanket generalizations (which are always open to critique)....

X10 - very old technology with spotty reliability due to powerline noise. The newer technology systems listed below seem to work much better

Insteon - a really nice concept with spotty implimentation. There have been quality control issues that have plagued Insteon for years. Personally I've lost trust with that system and would not recommend it. But while many users have had issues, not everyone has, so the system can work. But my humble opinion is that it just isn't worth the risk/investment if you are starting a new system from scratch.

Zigbee & Z-Wave - two newer technologies that might sound similar, but are very different. Zigbee and Z-wave are not compatible with each other and many times not compatable with other similar systems - i.e. one brand of Zigbee devices may not work with another brand of Zigbee devices. Seems to give good reliability as long as there are enough devices to create a mesh network. In other words, it might not work if you only want to install two devices on the opposite side of the house from each other depending on how much distance it is between the two. But reliability and distance goes up as you add more devices.

Lutron (RadioRA or RadioRA II) - arguably seems to be the most reliable wireless lighting control system out there right now. RadioRA II is much better than the first system. Cost is slightly higher than many other wireless systems, but not absurdly higher.

Hopefully that gives you some ideas to run with. The types of devices offered in each system also greatly varies. For example, while I really like the Centralite Jetstream System (Zigbee based), it is fairly limited in the devices being offered (no fan module for example). Therefore it might not cover all the goals you require of a lighting system.

PS - for full disclosure, I do not have any lighting system myself (so I am not trying to push a specific system or brand). I have done a lot of reading and research myself because I would like to add lighting to my automation system, but haven't pulled the trigger on anything yet.

 

[Hansueli]

Many thanks for your response. I think your input agrees with some many other Inseon and X10 users. So, I am still searching for what could be best TODAY and together with my Elk M1G. Best regards, Hans

I have an Elk M1G system and would like to use it to control some lights and other electrical systems with it. I understand that there are numerous monitoring systems that could work with the Elk system: Like X10, Z-Wave, Insteon, Zigbee, Lutron and such. These are systems that receive the control information either via the existing power lines or via radio signal.
May I kindly ask for your opinion what you think is most practical and economic?

Many thanks, Hans

I have Insteon. It is OK. Smarthome has had serious quality control problems in the past which continue to plague my system. It is not 100% reliable. The ISY is the most attractive part of the Insteon.

X10 is pretty outdated in its technology and capabilities and not very reliable.

I don't know how zigbee and z-wave are coming. I think they are slowly adding stuff.

 

[Hansueli]

Jon, thanks for your response. Would you know, can this bus type system interface with the Elk M1G system? Is there a special interface module required?
Thanks for your thoughts and input.

Best regards, Hans

Isn't there also something called UPB? I once heard about this.

BTW, I have X-10 and it works very well in my environment.

UPB (Universal Powerline Bus) is very reliable. I have about 60 devices installed and NEVER have issues. OK, I once had an issue with my 58" plasma, but a filter fixed that. I run multiple servers, PC's, laptops, UPS's, etc. in my house and the only item that (intermittently) caused issues with UPB was the plasma. I even have multiple UPB devices downstream from some pool pumps and they work 100% reliable.

 

[Hansueli]

Thanks Pete. I can tell you, I feel soooo stupid. Though, I once gratuated as an electronics engineer and yet, I am so lost with all these possible systems..... Anyway, you mentioned the UPB system. Of what I heard, this is a bus based system. Questions: What is the name of the manufacturer? Would you know, does Elk offer a UPB interface module to communicate with these components? The fact is, I would like to interface it with my Elk M1G unit. The good thing is that my walls of my new house are all open. Not shettrock yet!
Kind regards, Hans

Welcome to the forum Hans.

I started to play with X10 in the late 1970's. It worked OK for me until the 2000's. I decided then to try Insteon and switched out all of my lighting switches to Insteon/X10. I kept using X10 communications for my lighting via my automation panel. Still works fine for me.

Today communicate via Insteon only with software running on my HA server. Just recently have decided to update my lighting. At this time most likely my direction will be to go to UPB for most/all of the in wall switches. I am also playing with Z-Wave (originally not intending to utilize RF) but have installed a bit right now. So right now my house is kind of a sandbox with X10, Insteon, UPB and Z-Wave running. They all play well together that I can tell right now. Will be doing migration slowly.

 

[bmil]

Besides X10 and Zwave, the M1 also supports UPB, Insteon, Centralite (several flavors), RadioRA, and Vantage lighting systems. No "generic" ZigBee yet.

UPB requires a Powerline Interface Module (PIM) similar to X10. It intefaces to the M1 through an M1XSP module. 3 companies manufacture UPB devices; PCS, HAI and Simply Automated (Web Mountain sells Simply Automated products with updated Gen 2 firmware).

 

[Steve]

Besides X10 and Zwave, the M1 also supports UPB, Insteon, Centralite (several flavors), RadioRA, and Vantage lighting systems. No ZigBee yet.

Well, Centralite Jetstream is Zigbee. There is no 'generic' Zigbee but that's pretty much across the board.