ELK-WSV You Really Do Need It

[Digger]

Last night we had temperatures about Zero or just below and my water heaters internal plumbing froze and burst. Since I was redoing the laundry room I had not put back the water sensors (what are the odds if you know what I mean). I woke up to about 1/2 to 3/4 inch of water in my laundry room and workshop which is attached. I had to push the function key on the alarm keypad to shut the water off since I had my sensors disconected.

The fortunate part of it:

All cabinets and washer dryers etc are built on pedestals so no damage to them

The water did not make it into the den since I sealed under the door threshold and the water level was lowest between the door to the den and laundry room.

The unfortunate

The water heater is toast. Its only 6 years old but it is not under warranty for this. It will take a week to get a replacement. I do have the old water heater in place so I will plumb to it after lunch to see if I can get it going.

I lost a few things in my workshop including a brand new ELK-SWB28 cabinet that was on the floor (I cant put it in anyones house now that it got wet). Also I had a realy nice woodworkers workbench that someone gave to me and it is damaged.

The floor in the workshop (laminate) is also destroyed. It is very diffcult to replace in such a small room with so much stuff.

Remember its not just the valve its the sensors that are critical. I have them sitting there since after Thanksgiving to put back and never got a "round tuit" (I am ordering a round tuit it for the weekend).

Could have been much worse had I not planned and built the laundry room cabinets and machines on platforms.

 

[Neurorad]

Wow, so sorry to hear, Digger.

After reading the title, I was hoping for a cheerful story.

 

[Digger]

Wow, so sorry to hear, Digger.

After reading the title, I was hoping for a cheerful story.

If I had the sensors in place I would have only needed a mop not a pump. Lesson learned not to put things off.

 

[Kevin L]

Bummer, Digger. How I hated worrying about freezing pipes up north.

I've been following the other thread about the WSV and printed out the info. I'm going to order the valve. When I designed the house, I didn't think of water sensors anywhere, so I don't have any wiring for it. Are there any wireless water sensors that work with the Elk?

Thanks,
Kevin

 

[Quixote_1]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Glad you caught it before you had any more damage.

Just make sure you hook up your smoke detectors before you start heating your bath water on the stove.

 

[Digger]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Glad you caught it before you had any more damage.

Just make sure you hook up your smoke detectors before you start heating your bath water on the stove.

LOL no I am just finshing a break and I will start putting the old water heater in place again. Thank god for PEX.

 

[Ira]

Bummer, Digger. How I hated worrying about freezing pipes up north.

I've been following the other thread about the WSV and printed out the info. I'm going to order the valve. When I designed the house, I didn't think of water sensors anywhere, so I don't have any wiring for it. Are there any wireless water sensors that work with the Elk?

Thanks,
Kevin

Do a search on "quik" (spelled as shown) and you will get several threads on the GE Quik Bridge 8016 wireless receiver and GE NX-695 wireless water sensors. It's not a cheap solution -- about $80 for the 8016 and $50 for each NX-695 -- and you may need an Elk M1XIN input expander if you don't have enough free zones. A single 8016 will support up to 16 wireless devices (eight channels, two devices per channel). Note that it uses SAW technology instead of crystal technology.

 

[Kevin L]

Do a search on "quik" (spelled as shown) and you will get several threads on the GE Quik Bridge 8016 wireless receiver and GE NX-695 wireless water sensors. It's not a cheap solution -- about $80 for the 8016 and $50 for each NX-695 -- and you may need an Elk M1XIN input expander if you don't have enough free zones. A single 8016 will support up to 16 wireless devices (eight channels, two devices per channel). Note that it uses SAW technology instead of crystal technology.

Thanks, Ira, I will. It's a shame they only have SAW transmitters, since I have the ELK-M1XRF2G and it works great.

I am going to be adding some z-wave to my home (i use homeseer, too) and was looking at these, too: http://fortrezz.com/7.html

Kevin

 

[Digger]

Bummer, Digger. How I hated worrying about freezing pipes up north.

I've been following the other thread about the WSV and printed out the info. I'm going to order the valve. When I designed the house, I didn't think of water sensors anywhere, so I don't have any wiring for it. Are there any wireless water sensors that work with the Elk?

Thanks,
Kevin

I still use SAW detectors (ELK is correct in that they can not assure you that they will work since their receiver is based on Crystal Transmitters)and they work fine for about 3 years or so now.

But Ira's solution is theoretically better.

I used PEX when I replumbed since one feature is it does not burst. Of course the internal plumbing for the heater can not be PEX

By code you can not put a damper on a Tankless heater. Because of that the cold wind comes down the short exhaust and freezes the tankless coil.

 

[Kevin L]

I still use SAW detectors (ELK is correct in that they can not assure you that they will work since their receiver is based on Crystal Transmitters)and they work fine for about 3 years or so now.

But Ira's solution is theoretically better.

I used PEX when I replumbed since one feature is it does not burst. Of course the internal plumbing for the heater can not be PEX

By code you can not put a damper on a Tankless heater. Because of that the cold wind comes down the short exhaust and freezes the tankless coil.

Is the NX-695 the sensor you use? I don't mind the extra $80 for another receiver as long as it can tie into the Elk and trigger the WSV.

When I built my home in FL, I use the Manabloc system with PEX. It's great.

Kevin

 

[jmark71]

Sorry to hear about your problems Digger. We had a "situation" this morning that has me buying the WSV as well today... not as bad as yours, but we had a leak from a valve underneath my bathroom sink that leaked down into the kitchen below causing a bit of a mess to the ceiling (though probably not bad enough to cause replacement) before we realized. If we'd been both at work when it happened, then goodness knows how much worse it would have been this evening.

Anyway... a WSV is on the way along with a bunch of leaf moisture sensors (www.hobby-boards.com) and some NX-650 sensors. I am basically following JWilson's idea of using these sensors and the the Hobby Boards moisture sensors...

Kevin - check out this link for a solution JWilson used... a bit cheaper than the approach above. The moisture sensors are $8.00 a pop and the NX-650 wireless sensors can be had for around $31 (I got mine from http://www.homesecuritystore.com/p-698-nx-650-ge-wireless-door-window-sensor.aspx). These wireless sensors are Crystal-based (not SAW) so will work just fine with the Elk without any need for the additional bridge. One cool thing about the NX-650 sensor is that it includes terminals that you could pretty much use for anything you'd like to monitor so adding wireless capability to anything can be a snap.

 

[Digger]

Is the NX-695 the sensor you use? I don't mind the extra $80 for another receiver as long as it can tie into the Elk and trigger the WSV.

When I built my home in FL, I use the Manabloc system with PEX. It's great.

Kevin

I will have to verify the model number when I find them again. Most of mine are hardwired GRI sensors but where i could no longer get wire to I used wireless. I bought them bulk and used them up or sold them to a few friends that are installers. They are NOT cheap.

The PEX is a lot easier to work with other than it takes some effort to make a straight run from the PEX off the roll. I can sweat pipe pretty well but I like that the PEX does not corrode or allow sediment on the inside so water pressure is not reduced over time. Its also nice to know at a quick glance if its hot or cold water pipe (red or blue etc).

Soooooo much cheaper as well.

 

[Digger]

Sorry to hear about your problems Digger. We had a "situation" this morning that has me buying the WSV as well today... not as bad as yours, but we had a leak from a valve underneath my bathroom sink that leaked down into the kitchen below causing a bit of a mess to the ceiling (though probably not bad enough to cause replacement) before we realized. If we'd been both at work when it happened, then goodness knows how much worse it would have been this evening.

Anyway... a WSV is on the way along with a bunch of leaf moisture sensors (www.hobby-boards.com) and some NX-650 sensors. I am basically following JWilson's idea of using these sensors and the the Hobby Boards moisture sensors...

Kevin - check out this link for a solution JWilson used... a bit cheaper than the approach above. The moisture sensors are $8.00 a pop and the NX-650 wireless sensors can be had for around $31 (I got mine from http://www.homesecuritystore.com/p-698-nx-650-ge-wireless-door-window-sensor.aspx). These wireless sensors are Crystal-based (not SAW) so will work just fine with the Elk without any need for the additional bridge. One cool thing about the NX-650 sensor is that it includes terminals that you could pretty much use for anything you'd like to monitor so adding wireless capability to anything can be a snap.

The more sensors the better

 

[nov0798]

Not to be an jerk, but how does the internal plumbing in a water heater freeze, thats located inside the house with I assume hot water in it?

 

[gatchel]

Digger said it above :

The cold wind comes down the short exhaust and freezes the tankless coil.

Most tankless heaters are demand based. No water flow, no heat.