Bedroom Closet or Attic

[Travailen]

I am just getting started here. i moved into a home that has been wired for a security system but, does not have one installed. I have purchased an ELK M1 gold and am getting ready to install it. The security wiring from all over the house is pulled to a small wall box in the master bedroom closet. I feel that it M1 would be more secure installed in the attic. The house is a single story house. The attic is accessible from a pull down stairs. It is a full attic with plywood decking and plenty of over head space to work standing up comfortably. Putting the system in the attic would make it easier to run Additional wiring, Cat 6 cables UPS power etc. and it would give me more room to do a proper installation. Pulling the house wires from the closet back to the attic is not a problem. I prefer the attic installation, unless, after installation, the M1 takes a lot of attention.
I live near Houston, Texas so cold is not a problem. The attic roof is well insulated to extreme heat is also not a problem.
Any opinions would be appreciated.

Thank you for this forum. I can see it can be a lot of help to me. Hopefully, some time in the future I can also be helpful.

Rick

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Welcome to CocoonTech. Define 'extreme" heat. I would still be worried about the temperatures getting to hot if you installed in the attic.

From the Elk Installation Manual:

DO NOT MOUNT THE CONTROL OUTDOORS OR IN A DAMP LOCATION OR WHERE THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS ARE UNSUITABLE FOR ELECTRONIC BASED EQUIPMENT. DO NOT MOUNT IN AN UNCONDITIONED ATTIC. USE COMMON SENSE AND GOOD INSTALLATION PRACTICES. A suitable location would be inside a secure dry location where the ambient temperature inside the control box can remain at 32‘ to 120° Fahrenheit...

 

[Travailen]

I am not sure, this is not the hottest time of the year so I cannot get a accurate idea if the possible maximum temperature. However I did some work in the attic this last summer and it was not totally uncomfortable. I am guessing maybe 110 to 115F maximum. The attic is well ventilated with slotted soffits and ridge vents. My thinking is that the overall heat would not be a problem. Perhaps only where there is a concentrated heat source. If that were the case I could add a fan.
I guess I just feel like the attic location would be more secure.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Well, you would be going against Elk's installation location recommendation (that I included in my above posting).

I really don't understand your decision based on only wanting it to be 'more secure'. I would think the bedroom closet would be plenty secure IF you are also installing the standard suite of indoor motion and glass break sensors as well as alarming all of your doors/windows (entrance points).

You could even mount an additional sensor for the bedroom closet door, but that might be a pain as you would have to make sure it is closed before arming (saves you from having to manually bypass).

 

[wuench]

There are three things to worry about when putting electronics, the first is outright failure due to the excessive cold/heat. The second is a reduction in the MBTF for the components, so even if they don't fail the first time the recommended temperature range is exceeded, it may not last as long. The last is that any warranty will be invalidated.

 

[Travailen]

Thanks for your answers and suggestions. You reference to the ELK installation manual make a good point. All things considered I am thinking the closet layout is the best.

 

[chedemefedeme]

I can say that WAF is higher when something does not go in the master closet..so there may be some valid element to it from that perspective. I can say this from experience the other way. I've basically taken over all the high shelves/walls of the master closet with automation gear..and the wife is not frequently amused by it.

That said, the Elk in my experience is a bit temperature sensitive. It gets warm during normal operation. I live over here in Austin, Texas where we have the same heat as you in Houston but not as much of the humidity. I have a very new home with great attic venting and do have _some_ automation equipment mounted in the attic.

BUT, all that said, I would not put my precious Elk in the attic. The stuff I put in the attic I know I am shortening the life of and is typically stuff that is cheap/replaceable (POE injectors for cameras, cheap network switches, etc).


What did help me with ease of expansion in the closet was installing several vertical pipes from attic to closet. This way when I want to wire something new across the attic over to the Elk I just pull the wire to the pipe, slide it down the pipe, and boom - it's in the closet. I can not tell you how much of a GOOD IDEA something like that is. Oh..last thought...install a BIGGER PIPE than you think you'll need. My only issue now is that I've nearly filled the two, two inch pipes I installed so it is no longer as easy to expand.

 

[tmbrown97]

I can say that WAF is higher when something does not go in the master closet..so there may be some valid element to it from that perspective. I can say this from experience the other way. I've basically taken over all the high shelves/walls of the master closet with automation gear..and the wife is not frequently amused by it.

Thank goodness for his/her closets! Hers is filled with whatever children's clothes that aren't in rotation currently, and mine has the Elk/Automation cabinets (50" CV, 20" OnQ), the gun safe, and a 12U Wall mount rack above...

 

[GadgetNerd]

If you really want it in the attic, you could build a small "room" up there and run an AC duct and return to it. Expand it a little and it can do dual duty as a man cave. Also don't forget that an attic can also have much higher humidity levels and given the right conditions, you might have condensation forming on your gear.

 

[tmbrown97]

Also keep in mind that a thief getting to your alarm system isn't the worst thing in the world - if it's a targeted theft and they go straight for the panel, hopefully you have short entry delays and other triggers that have alerted the central station before they make it.

 

[drvnbysound]

Another thing to consider is the idea that you may want to add things to the panel or need access to the M1 later... I know I wouldn't want to have to crawl through my attic space (even if it were comfortable) just to access the panel.

 

[hagak]

Not sure how your roof is built but mine is just asphalt shingle and a single layer of plywood. Not exactly something difficult to enter through. In fact I would argue the easiest and stealthiest place to enter my house is from the back roof. Not visible from the street and tree cover blocks most visibilty from other angles.
Because of this I have a sensor on the attic door, sure they could drop threw the sheet wall but probably would prefer the stairs in the door, even so motions will pick up coming through the sheet walk.

Now with that in mind if they enter through the roof there is nothing stopping them from having direct access to the security panel if it is in the attic without tripping any sensor, probably not a great idea.

 

[Ranger Digital]

I think your 115 is WAY off for houston. im in central texas and it can hit 130 plus in attics in the summer. stick to the closet or I promise you will have issues.

 

[drvnbysound]

If it's a standard attic with blown in insulation (which I assume it is) I'd certainly have to agree. I'm in the northern part of FL and I know it gets much hotter than 115 in my attic.

That said, Ive been in a newer attic which was built with the open/closed (not sure which it was) expanding foam-type insulation that was attached to the underside of the roof/trusses around the end of August of this year, and it was only about 75-80F in the attic... I was VERY surprised and it made me want to do it in my next home. It sure would make going up there a lot more comfortable AND you don't have to deal with the insulation just above the ceiling (e.g. digging through it to find headers) as everything is exposed... and the foam insulation covers the shingle nails, so you don't have to worry about gouging your head on those either

 

[Del91574]

Unless you plan on mounting the hardware in climate controlled space or enclosure (they make them for FACP's and similar) it's a really bad idea. Besides going against the manufacturer's instructions, the best case scenario is you're going to shorten the life of the electronics, worse is to experience thermal failures. We see it a lot of times with basic video encoders and other panels that simply fail because of the thermal aspect of them being installed in hot closets on jobs.