Automation Capable Water Meter?

[rbroders]

I'm looking for a water meter I can use inside my house to monitor water usage (just like I use the Brultech ECM-1240 to monitor electricity usage).

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find anything, and I'm hoping someone here can help. I would like a 2" Positive Displacement meter with a high resolution automation interface (at least 2 pulses per gallon). Reasonably priced.

Hersey Meters has a 2" PD meter for $500 (ouch already), but when you add the "pulser interface" which produces a pulse every 0.064 gallons (i.e. each nutation of the disc) the price goes up to $1500! Ouch, pretty outrageous for such a simple addition.

Omega sells a FTB8020B-PR 2" multi-jet turbine meter for $620 with two pulses per gallon. Because it isn't positive displacement, I think it will not work well with low flow rates and it'll be useless for supplemental leak detection.

Anyone else doing this type of monitoring? What kind of meter are you using?

Thanks -- Bob

 

[Rupp]

Here's the company I bought from 3 years ago.

http://www.jerman.com/dljmeter.html

 

[Smarty]

Rupp,
How did you connect with the pulse count (how did you get the pulses into HomeSeer/whatever your using)?

 

[icellama21]

Almost every remotely read water meter has some kind of pulse switch built in. Whenever the meter reaches a certain volume of water, a contact closes or opens creating a pulse. Each meter has a different pulse "volume", you need to contact the manufacturer or check the specs. Often these "pulse" systems are connected to a small computer that counts them, and then relays that info once a month to your utility.

Sometimes you can get inside your meter and access these wires and count the pulses. Other times the pulse is generated by a magnetic reed switch and you can monitor the magnet. Just count the pulses, multiply them by the specs for the meter and you have your usage.

Here is a link to a guy that monitors his meter's pulse count with a sensor: http://www.edcheung.com/automa/water.htm

 

[ano]

Looks like the DLJSJ75C should work, and only $99.99 Good find Rupp.

Now, about what is the duty-cycle of the pulse? Is it ON 50% and OFF 50%, or do I have to worry about catching a quick pulse? I think if I hooked it up to an HAI OMNI contact, I'm not sure it would register if I was using a lot of water. I wonder how much water one could use in a minute?

 

[Ira]

Looks like the DLJSJ75C should work, and only $99.99 Good find Rupp.

Now, about what is the duty-cycle of the pulse? Is it ON 50% and OFF 50%, or do I have to worry about catching a quick pulse? I think if I hooked it up to an HAI OMNI contact, I'm not sure it would register if I was using a lot of water. I wonder how much water one could use in a minute?

One of the main limiting factors to flow is the diameter of the pipe. As a rough rule of thumb...

1/2" -- 4 gpm
3/4" -- 8 gpm
1" -- 13 gpm
1-1/4" -- 22 gpm
1-1/2" -- 30 gpm
2" -- 50 gpm

The above numbers are for schedule 40 PVC pipe. Copper is maybe 10 percent less. Don't know about galvanized steel. Also, it depends on the length of run, number of changes in direction, pressure, etc. The numbers are pretty much the best possible case. So if you have a one inch pipe coming into your house, you will be doing good to get more than 13 gpm thru it, even if you turn on every "water user" in the house.

 

[rbroders]

Unfortunately the DLJ meters are turbines, not Positive Displacement. I'm not expert, but I believe the turbines are not accurate during very low flow and are not useful for finding leaks. Note that the utility meters that Ed Cheung monitored (the Badger and the Neptune T-10) were both PD meters. Obviously Ed has had good luck with his setup and was even able to detect a toilet leak because of it.

Has anyone used a turbine meter successfully in this application? Does it detect very low flows?

The other problem with the DLJ meters is that their 2" meter has a pulse resolution of 1 per 10 gallons. Ugh. Unfortunately I have to use 2" service because my house is on a hill and the water pressure is lousy.

--Thanks, Bob

 

[vtdame]

Bob,

Were you able to come up with a solution? I have additional information on Pulse meters, accuracy of PD vs other meter types, Automation in the Bay Area, etc.

Melissa

 

[js19707]

Bob,

Were you able to come up with a solution? I have additional information on Pulse meters, accuracy of PD vs other meter types, Automation in the Bay Area, etc.

I'm not the OP but I'd be interested in the information you're offering. I have two potential uses in mind: one on the water main coming into my house so I can track overall water consumption and rate info, and one on the PVC pipe which feeds my sprinkler systems so i can measure how much water i'm using, do leak detection, etc.

 

[rbroders]

Bob,

Were you able to come up with a solution? I have additional information on Pulse meters, accuracy of PD vs other meter types, Automation in the Bay Area, etc.

Melissa

I found that most of the available systems were intended for use in industrial control systems (SCADA), and thus outrageously expensive (like $1000 for a simple RS-232 interface). I got a 2" Neptune T-10, and intend to add a hall effect magnetic sensor and count pulses with a Click PLC I have nearby...

--Bob

 

[mdesmarais]

Exercise in scripting. .. . if your existing meter has a human readable counter, point a cheap webcam at it. . . snap a shot, feed it into an OCR program. . . grab the resulting number! Simple! ;-)

 

[dBeau]

I got a 2" Neptune T-10, and intend to add a hall effect magnetic sensor and count pulses with a Click PLC I have nearby...

That's about what I just finished doing. If you google for "Ed Cheung water meter" you'll find his site with a description of how he did it. Mostly, I followed his design. I made a few changes to make it easier to calibrate without an oscilloscope and to make it a bit more tolerant to a noisy signal. Since I already had a 1-wire network in place I used a dual counter from Hobby Boards to count the pulses. In short, it works great. Pro tip: before spending a lot of time and money, determine if your water meter's flow is detectable by the sensor. I used the "tri-corder" app on my andriod phone to display the phone's compass output as a strip chart. If it shows a nice sine wave that starts and stops with the water flow, chances are you'll be able to get the circuit to work.

 

[jml]

I'm looking for a water meter I can use inside my house to monitor water usage (just like I use the Brultech ECM-1240 to monitor electricity usage).

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find anything, and I'm hoping someone here can help. I would like a 2" Positive Displacement meter with a high resolution automation interface (at least 2 pulses per gallon). Reasonably priced.

Hersey Meters has a 2" PD meter for $500 (ouch already), but when you add the "pulser interface" which produces a pulse every 0.064 gallons (i.e. each nutation of the disc) the price goes up to $1500! Ouch, pretty outrageous for such a simple addition.

Omega sells a FTB8020B-PR 2" multi-jet turbine meter for $620 with two pulses per gallon. Because it isn't positive displacement, I think it will not work well with low flow rates and it'll be useless for supplemental leak detection.

Anyone else doing this type of monitoring? What kind of meter are you using?

Thanks -- Bob

When our lawn was ripped during construction last spring I ran a cable from a 1" DLJ meter to my brultech unit. It has a pulse counter on the last aux. port. Works like a charm. I can see water usage accumulation each day in homeseer. I find the brultech software far easier to use to see historic and instantaneous usage. Overall, probably the easiest way to go if you don't have special application needs.

 

[jedinite7]

That's about what I just finished doing. If you google for "Ed Cheung water meter" you'll find his site with a description of how he did it. Mostly, I followed his design. I made a few changes to make it easier to calibrate without an oscilloscope and to make it a bit more tolerant to a noisy signal. Since I already had a 1-wire network in place I used a dual counter from Hobby Boards to count the pulses. In short, it works great. Pro tip: before spending a lot of time and money, determine if your water meter's flow is detectable by the sensor. I used the "tri-corder" app on my andriod phone to display the phone's compass output as a strip chart. If it shows a nice sine wave that starts and stops with the water flow, chances are you'll be able to get the circuit to work.

I am looking to do the same thing, but I do not have a water meter currently at my house (on well). What meter do you have and what sensor did you end up using to get enough output for the Hobby Board dual counter. What modifications did you end up making to Ed Cheung's process to improve it. Also I looked on the marketplace for tri-corder and came up with only star trek apps. Where did you get said app. Thanks.

 

[Mr Spock]

I also vote for the Aux5 port (pulse counter) of the Brultech 1240 energy monitor. I'm also using the Omega FTB8007B water meter. By default its 1 pulse/gallon, but the magnet can be moved to the 10x wheel. Cost is $170 for a 3/4" or $280 for a 1", which covers most residential users.

http://www.omega.com/pptst/ftb8000b.html