Verizon Fios Router not passing email

Spanky

Senior Member
Contrary to earlier discussions, Actiontec now says they will NOT modify their Verizon FIOS (fiber to the home) router to allow the M1XEP to send email.

The M1XEP ethernet module, advertises a zero-byte receive window in the SYN/SYN-ACK/ACK
handshaking. The D-Link, Linksys, etc. routers pass these packets. The Actiontec MI424WR FIOS Router does not.
 
Contrary to earlier discussions, Actiontec now says they will NOT modify their Verizon FIOS (fiber to the home) router to allow the M1XEP to send email.

The M1XEP ethernet module, advertises a zero-byte receive window in the SYN/SYN-ACK/ACK
handshaking. The D-Link, Linksys, etc. routers pass these packets. The Actiontec MI424WR FIOS Router does not.


Spanky --

Have you tried calling verizon? I recall that they can unlock some features
 
Are you using the Verizon outbound mailservers?

If not thats getting more and more common with ISPs.
 
Would this be the same issue I have been experiencing in which I am unable to connect to Elk RP via an Verizon Fios Actiontec roter? Although after shutting everything down, resetting router, restarting and doing m1xep setup again, I was good for a short while before getting denied again. I haven't tried connecting again in a couple of weeks got a bit frustrated. If so could I try to ask for a different brand router or even use my own. Although I believe I would lose some of the functionality I get with the rotuer such as multimedia manager.

Previous respone from Spanky,
"Verizon Fios, fiber to the house, has a problem in connecting using the M1XEP.
The Verizon Fios technical support said that they were going to fix the issue, then they said that they were NOT going to fix it.
ELK is trying to get a work around. No solution yet!"



Thanks,
Mike
 
The only issue known with the Verizon Fios is when the M1XEP sends email.

Yes, we have spent hours on the phone with Actiontech, the manufacturer of the router for Verizon. They just informed us that they were not going to fix the problem.
 
The only issue known with the Verizon Fios is when the M1XEP sends email.

Yes, we have spent hours on the phone with Actiontech, the manufacturer of the router for Verizon. They just informed us that they were not going to fix the problem.

Spanky,

Verizon is ready to install Fios in the next few weeks for us. If we use an alternate router, such as D-Link, and only use Verizon's router as a modem (I assume it's a combined unit, similar to their DSL offerings), do you have the same issue? I would not be using the verizon.net domain for email, and would instead just use my own via either POP3 or smtp. Would I be affected?

Also, Is there an alternative to Actiontech for Fios? I realy want Fios, but don't want to lose the ability to have the M!XEP send email.

Thanks,

Joe
 
I would say most if not all of your customers who want that functionality also have a PC that can relay the messages. Be careful or you can become a spam hoster, you would have a functional mailserver locally, you have to be able to lock it down.
 
The only issue known with the Verizon Fios is when the M1XEP sends email.

Yes, we have spent hours on the phone with Actiontech, the manufacturer of the router for Verizon. They just informed us that they were not going to fix the problem.

Spanky,

Verizon is ready to install Fios in the next few weeks for us. If we use an alternate router, such as D-Link, and only use Verizon's router as a modem (I assume it's a combined unit, similar to their DSL offerings), do you have the same issue? I would not be using the verizon.net domain for email, and would instead just use my own via either POP3 or smtp. Would I be affected?

Also, Is there an alternative to Actiontech for Fios? I realy want Fios, but don't want to lose the ability to have the M!XEP send email.

Thanks,

Joe
You don't need to use the actiontec. They'll install it for you, then you swap yours in and call tech support and ask them to help you enable your new router. (They'll need to release the "lease" associated with the actiontec MAC address
 
I thought it worked differently as the actiontec also speaks to the fios boxes over coax (and you will see them on the administration web page).

I could have it wrong (or this may only impact pay per view which I don't use anyway) but if you are right then I like that as a solution.
 
It is my impression that you use the router to get the on screen guide and on demand stuff too. Now wether you need the actiontec or you can use your own, not quite sure.
 
MORE Information:


The details of the Verizon/Actiontec router issue are:
This issue affects not only sending email, but ANY outgoing TCP packet from the M1XEP to an Internet destination. This includes sending alarm reports to a central station IP receiver and making use of the DDNS and network time protocol features of the M1XEP.

The M1XEP uses a networking module known as a Digi ConnectMe. When the ConnectMe initiates a TCP/IP connection, it tells the remote computer that it has 0 buffer space available to receive data. Because this happens during initial handshaking before any data is actually transferred, it's really not a big deal. By the time data is ready to be sent/received, the ConnectMe "advertises" the correct buffer size.

Dlink, Linksys, and other routers recognize that the buffer size doesn't matter at this point (or simply ignore that fact) and happily pass the communications back-and-forth anyway.

The Actiontec MI424WR, on the other hand, sees the 0 buffer size advertisement and decides that, since the M1XEP cannot receive data, there is no need to allow the handshaking to continue. So it blocks it.

Q: Can the ConnectMe be changed to fix this?
A: The ConnectMe uses an operating system that is proprietary to Digi Corp. Elk Products has no control over it.

Q: Wouldn't it make sense for Actiontec to make their routers work like their competitors' do?
A: This makes sense, and they could do so. There is little incentive for them to change their router.

Q: What can I do about it?
A: In theory, it may be possible to use a second router that works. But we cannot say what wiring configuration between the two routers would be needed to retain the services provided by Verizon FIOS and get the M1XEP to send email. Since Elk Products does not have direct access to Verizon FIOS service, we cannot test this. However, we would gladly welcome feedback from anyone who does have the ability to experiment and test this theory.

M1XEP Guru
 
Ohhh, well thats a tough one. I am really surprised it only effects FIOS and not higher end managed switches too.

A simple test could be to put it in bridge mode and try a Linksys.
 
MORE Information:


The details of the Verizon/Actiontec router issue are:
This issue affects not only sending email, but ANY outgoing TCP packet from the M1XEP to an Internet destination. This includes sending alarm reports to a central station IP receiver and making use of the DDNS and network time protocol features of the M1XEP.

The M1XEP uses a networking module known as a Digi ConnectMe. When the ConnectMe initiates a TCP/IP connection, it tells the remote computer that it has 0 buffer space available to receive data. Because this happens during initial handshaking before any data is actually transferred, it's really not a big deal. By the time data is ready to be sent/received, the ConnectMe "advertises" the correct buffer size.

Dlink, Linksys, and other routers recognize that the buffer size doesn't matter at this point (or simply ignore that fact) and happily pass the communications back-and-forth anyway.

This is a bug in the M1XEP, strictly speaking. In TCP, the SYN used in connect setup occupies sequence space. E.g., the way that the TCP segment carrying the SYN flag is acked is to ACK the sequence number in sequence space that it occupies. While most TCP stacks are likely to be tolorent of this, and the ones that are not probably succeed in opening the connection by doing a "zero-window-probe", it's still "surprising" behavior. The remote TCP will be sending it's SYN (along with an ACK of the M1XEP's SYN) into a zero-sized window where the SYN "needs" sequence space to be sent into and subsequently ACK'ed.

It's been 25 years since I wrote my first TCP/IP stack, so my memories might be a little rusty. However, Elk might still look to address the behavior of the M1XEP to act as conservatively as possible.

While you're at it, you might have it perform firmware upgrades using HTTP which will survive transiting a NAT better than FTP with a seperate data connection.

-louie
 
Q: Can the ConnectMe be changed to fix this?
A: The ConnectMe uses an operating system that is proprietary to Digi Corp. Elk Products has no control over it.

Q: Wouldn't it make sense for Actiontec to make their routers work like their competitors' do?
A: This makes sense, and they could do so. There is little incentive for them to change their router.

Q: What can I do about it?
A: In theory, it may be possible to use a second router that works. But we cannot say what wiring configuration between the two routers would be needed to retain the services provided by Verizon FIOS and get the M1XEP to send email. Since Elk Products does not have direct access to Verizon FIOS service, we cannot test this. However, we would gladly welcome feedback from anyone who does have the ability to experiment and test this theory.

M1XEP Guru

So, Spanky - where can we go with this? I'm probably a few weeks away from a much-desired FIOS install. But I don't want to lose my Elk capabilities, obviously. I don't know WHICH way to go on this one... It's going to be very hard for you guys to ignore FIOS, I think, so that doesn't seem like a good strategy. If you can't get Actiontec to change their router, and if - technically speaking - this is a problem with the Digi Corp. OS - why not try to get them to change? It would seem no less likely than getting Actiontec to act, and you have NO leverage over them, maybe you can get somewhere with Digi...

Another idea: Would it make sense to post this issue on the general Home Automation forum of Cocoontech, AND on the Homeseer forum? There must be a FIOS user who isn't using an M1XEP, but who can test the proposed alternative router idea... You could give them an XEP and router for their troubles, and still be way ahead... I don't know that I want to pay for installing FIOS only to find out that my Elk doesn't perform as I need it to, or I'd offer up my own system once they have it in. But this may keep me out of FIOS entirely...
 
Madcodger,

I just recently went to FIOS and have been unable to connect to Elk RP on a consitant basis. I am not the most technically inclined when it comes to software/hardware but I did have everything working with my previous service provider and personal router (I believe I was using their modem). I'd be willing to try the suggestion below but due to my lack of knowledge, I am not sure where to begin.

Mike
 
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