Craftsman Home Remodel - Z-Wave Recommendations Needed

[robpgreer]

As a form of introduction, I have a 1920s craftsman home that I'm currently remodeling. I've settled on z-wave because a) I'm installing the ADT Pulse alarm system [that supports z-wave]; B) I have a Harmony 890 remote [that supports z-wave]; and c) I don't want to spend a ton on the higher-end, admittedly more reliable systems. I've done X-10 for years but only using the non-wired components.

Before my ADT alarm install next week, I want to get as much z-wave in place as possible so that the alarm installer will hook those up into the system for me. I already own a Schlage z-wave deadbolt and a Trane Thermostat. Now I need some two-way and three way switches to control the dimmable can lights that are located throughout the house. I've been doing tons of reading and it seems like many of the switches out there are plagued by issues. If cost isn't necessarily an issue, which two-way / three-way dimmer switches are best / most reliable?

 

[Deane Johnson]

I'll toss in an answer to get the responses started.

I purchased Leviton Vizia RF+ because I understood it to be among the most reliable. The only thing I can suggest you make sure you are happy with is that it doesn't use a rocker type paddle, but rather a push on/push off using the bottom of what appears to be a paddle. Some like it, some don't. I'm still trying to decide if I do.

The other name that seems to come up as being in the top tier of reliability is Cooper.

The name that seems to be at the bottom of the list is GE. Lots of complaints. I don't remember who makes GE's for them.
I've heard some negative about ACT also, but have no experience with them.

Intermatic got out of the Z-Wave market, but there are still lots of products around, usually at bargain prices.

That's my take, hopefully someone with some other experiences will jump in here. Having been through this decision making process myself, I know how valuable some additional opinions can be.

Deane

 

[etc6849]

Do the new Cooper switches support two way feedback? In other words, can a manual press at a light switch send a status update to other nodes in the system? That would be one of my criteria... Another thing to look for is how open is the manufacturer; i.e. do they make an rs232 interface module with an open protocol? Leviton does this very well with the VRC0P/RZC0P.

 

[EricSnowe]

The leviton ViziaRF product works well. We have very little in the way of callbacks.

 

[twilo123]

the Cooper are high end and IMO much better than the new leviton regarding the physical design. it is still a single button press but designed like a paddle instead of a single bottom button like leviton. Personally i like the Cooper much more although they don't seem to be in the z-wave game as much as leviton.

not sure on the status updates on Cooper though. I am sure it supports 2way status updates (i.e. if you remotely turn it on it will come back and tell you if the command was successful or not), it will support associations, but i am not sure if it will auto update the status via the leviton serial controller though. this may be leviton specific although most software just use polling every 30 seconds or something if you need this ability.

Also Cooper tends to OEM/Private Label when it comes to zwave. but again from a physical standpoint they have the best z-wave light switches IMO. now on the other end intermatic had the most normal physical zwave light switches i have seen. just your regular paddle on/off.

for z-wave lighting this is what i have found over the years. physical designs are horrible. i don't know why they didn't just copy existing physical designs (maybe patents or something i don't know) but it seems that z-wave lighting manufacturers all wanted to redesign what has been working great for many years.

1. either they redesigned the toggle into a paddle like leviton vizia is doing
2. or they screwed up the dimmer function by
a. trying to include it into the main switch paddle. in this case you have to hold the paddle down to dim. it is a guessing game to get it to stop where you want and is just horrible IMO.
b. they were smart enough to put a 2nd small control for dimming on side but then had legal troubles and wound up putting them on top. see older vizia vs. newer viziaRF dimmers. just crap IMO. maybe they had no choice but it still is a horrible implementation IMO.

Acti burn out like crazy. stay away from them. intermatic left the z-wave game after a lawsuit. they have the cheapest and most normal looking switch/dimmer designs but their hardware doesn't support associations if i remember correctly. i have no experience with GE Jasco stuff. Cooper is excellent but expensive and most likely white label. Leviton is the strong player hanging in there for z-wave but their physical design on the z-wave viziaRF is horrible IMO. they are definitely hate it or love it. for instance i hate it but i put it in my grandmother's house and she loves only having to remember/feel for/control 1 button. it's just simpler for her.

oh and you may run into problems supporting the z-wave locks with the adt z-wave controller (and the leviton serial controller doesn't support them yet either). many z-wave controllers do not support z-wave locks at this time so you may want to check on that ahead of time or just find out when he installs the alarm.

Good luck with your install Rob and if you get a chance please post back on the results of your z-wave integration with the adt unit. i haven't had experience with them yet and haven't heard too much about them on the boards here so far.

 

[robpgreer]

Thanks for all of the detailed responses! Given what everyone has written here and after having done some more research on the models out there, I think the Cooper switches are probably my best bet for reliability / cost / compatibility. But I do have another question about which ones I need.

Assuming that I have 3-way dimmer situation where switches on both sides of the room need to both control the same set of lights, do I need the RF9534-N - 600 watt Z-Wave Dimmer (Cooper Aspire RF) + RF9542-Z - Z-Wave Dimmer Accessory Switch (Cooper Aspire RF)? In these cases, these Cooper switches would be replacing existing 3-way dimmer switches.

And if I have a 3-way non-dimmer need, do I use the RF9501 - 15 amp Z-Wave Relay Wall Switch (Cooper Aspire RF) + RF9517 - Z-Wave Relay Accessory Switch (Cooper Aspire RF)?

As Bardle & James used to say, "Thank you for your support!"

 

[robpgreer]

For anyone still paying attention, the ADT Pulse was installed yesterday. Apparently the system currently only supports GE & Leviton switches. I installed a GE 2-way switch and it works fine with the Pulse. I'm tempted to try the GE 2 way dimmers and switches and use the Leviton for the 3-way stuff (because of price). According to the ADT installer, they have had lots of trouble with the GE 3 way switches (which corresponds to the information related here and on other sites). He hasn't yet seen anyone use the Leviton.

 

[Dogman]

I too went through the Cooper versus Leviton debate. I was very dubious of the bottom push on push off approach of Leviton vizia RF+. I ended up buying just a few leviton and trying them out for a few months with my Elk M1. At first I didn't like the RF+ approach but after a few weeks of using them I ended liking them alot. My only complaint is they still use a green LED. I almost never adjust the dimming level at the switch itself cause as Twilo noted it is kind of wonky. I instead use scenes or use a remote or my smart phone and so really have no reason to ever adjust lights locally with the dimmer.

Cooper and Leviton are both quality companies. My father was an electrical contractor for over 50 years and I was an electrician for him while going to college prior to getting my Engineering degree. He exclusively used Leviton because he always had good luck with them so that was why I had a bias towards them. In the end the real thing that cemented the leviton for me was they have a 5 year warranty on their vizia RF+ and Cooper only has 2 years and because the M1 Elk supports the leviton VRCOP serial interface I figured it made the most sense to stay with a single manufacturer.

So in the end if I suggest you buy a few Cooper Aspire RFs and a few Leviton Vizia RF+ if you can afford them and try them out before you make a decision

One other thing is if you want some sort of remote control. The leviton remote is a pain. It works great and is bullet proof but is almost impossible to read since the screen is so small . I hated it so much I invested in a NEVO SL70 which is a cool touch screen universal remote that works with z-wave. Coopers remote while I have never used it looks much better but probably does not do audio/video like the Nevo.

Leviton just released a new installer software package that is free and It looks really nice. Not sure if Cooper has something similar or not. Good luck with your project.