Scoping out an ELK M1G install

My HA system is ready to move to the next level. CQC is installed and i feel like i have now gained control of it (at least until i move to the next level). My house currently has a security system installed (i.e., all the wiring is in place) but we don't use it much...not programmable. After sifting through the forums here (and CQC) as well as viewing the M1 training videos it appears that the M1 is the right solution for me--use cqc for front end but use M1 for rock solid HA backbone and zone input. Before i take the plunge and spend some $$$ (Automated Outlet seems to get the best reviews), i have a few questions that i would appreciate feedback on. Thanks in advance.

In no particular order, here goes:

1. It seems to me that ELK makes the equipment for the SWB, but not so much the equipment/sensors outside the SWB. If i understand zones correctly (each door, window, PIR, smoke dectector and CO detector is a unique zone) i expect to have about 30-35 zones in my house. The M1 itself can handle 16 zones, do i purchase extra [post="0"]M1XIN's[/post] to add more zones?

2. Since, once again, i don't want to rewire house, is there one lighting control system that works better with the M1 and CQC than others? Not trying open a big discussion on the vitrues of one lighting control system vs. another, just trying to put some systems on the list to research and remove others.

3. How about PIR's? My inclination to use wired PIRs like this [post="0"]one[/post]. How do i know if a certain brand of PIR will or will not work with the M1? Same question for other sensors like HAI's [post="0"]rain sensor[/post]. How can i ensure capatibilty of a device/sensor with the M1 before ordering it?

4. I have two aprilaire 8700's that i want to tie into the M1. Getting a [post="0"]M1XSP[/post] is the way to go, right?

5. Becasue it is not clear to me that the M1 will allow me to use my phone extensions to page via my russound cav6.6, i have my eye on buying an [post="0"]SLP-1[/post] which looks like it will do the job. I know that [post="0"]ELK-930[/post] is tied into the phone system, but would it permit speaking in to a phone extension to page like the SLP-1 will? Once again, if the ELK-930 doesn't have the functionality i am looking for, what do i need to check in order to know if the SLP-1 is compatible with the M1?

6. From other posts it is clear that i want to get an [post="0"]ELK-M1XEP[/post] so that i can have the M1 generate email and be accessable via a bband connection. I would be interested in seeing how others use this functionality. That is, a sample email u generate or maybe a screen capture of what u have done to customize the bband interface u can view remotely. One idea (pipe dream?) i have is to install a PIR activated camera at the front door (am maybe the back door) that will snap a low rez picture of the visitor/intruder as they approach, paste that picture into an email and send it to my blackberry so i can see who is at the house while we are away. Doable?

7. My garage doors get left open all the time at night. I would like to have the system check their status (the [post="0"]Ademco AS-ODC59B[/post] seems like a sensor that will do this) and if the door is open, close it. My question is, what senor/relay would work with the M1 to activate the switch to close the garage door?

Responses to any or all questions is appreciated.

Ken

There are others much more qualified than I to give you good input but since it's slow I'll give it my best shot. I just went through this myself about a year ago so I have some experience at least.

gacevich said:

1. It seems to me that ELK makes the equipment for the SWB, but not so much the equipment/sensors outside the SWB. If i understand zones correctly (each door, window, PIR, smoke dectector and CO detector is a unique zone) i expect to have about 30-35 zones in my house. The M1 itself can handle 16 zones, do i purchase extra [post="0"]M1XIN's[/post] to add more zones?

Click to expand...

Correct. You need an XIN for each additional 16 zones. 2 wire smokes can't be on the XIN. I used 4 wire smokes for this reason. You'll likely need an extra 12V power source for them too as the M1 won't support too much. One thing you can do to save zones if you're on the edge of a 2nd XIN is have groups of windows be zones rather than each individual window. I did each window mainly for ease of troubleshooting but it can be done the other way as well.

gacevich said:

2. Since, once again, i don't want to rewire house, is there one lighting control system that works better with the M1 and CQC than others? Not trying open a big discussion on the vitrues of one lighting control system vs. another, just trying to put some systems on the list to research and remove others.

Click to expand...

Integration wise I think you'lll find that all the major systems integrate pretty well. I'll leave the rest of that religious war alone. One thing I did find is that after running all my lighting through the Elk for a while, I ended up having it go directly through HomeSeer because I just found it so much more flexible in terms of programming. Keep in mind that the M1 is a security system first, hardware platform second, and HA system 3rd. IMO anyway ... others may disagree.

gacevich said:

3. How about PIR's? My inclination to use wired PIRs like this [post="0"]one[/post]. How do i know if a certain brand of PIR will or will not work with the M1? Same question for other sensors like HAI's [post="0"]rain sensor[/post]. How can i ensure capatibilty of a device/sensor with the M1 before ordering it?

Click to expand...

I'll let others handle this. I bought all my stuff from AO and they are fantastic.

gacevich said:

4. I have two aprilaire 8700's that i want to tie into the M1. Getting a [post="0"]M1XSP[/post] is the way to go, right?p

Click to expand...

Right.

gacevich said:

5. Becasue it is not clear to me that the M1 will allow me to use my phone extensions to page via my russound cav6.6, i have my eye on buying an [post="0"]SLP-1[/post] which looks like it will do the job. I know that [post="0"]ELK-930[/post] is tied into the phone system, but would it permit speaking in to a phone extension to page like the SLP-1 will? Once again, if the ELK-930 doesn't have the functionality i am looking for, what do i need to check in order to know if the SLP-1 is compatible with the M1?

Click to expand...

Don't know about this one.

gacevich said:

6. From other posts it is clear that i want to get an [post="0"]ELK-M1XEP[/post] so that i can have the M1 generate email and be accessable via a bband connection. I would be interested in seeing how others use this functionality. That is, a sample email u generate or maybe a screen capture of what u have done to customize the bband interface u can view remotely. One idea (pipe dream?) i have is to install a PIR activated camera at the front door (am maybe the back door) that will snap a low rez picture of the visitor/intruder as they approach, paste that picture into an email and send it to my blackberry so i can see who is at the house while we are away. Doable?

Click to expand...

I think that's doable via CQC but I wouldn't use the Elk for it. I primarily use my XEP for ELK RM and ELK RP. If I ever get around to playing with the email I'm sure that will be good too.

gacevich said:

7. My garage doors get left open all the time at night. I would like to have the system check their status (the [post="0"]Ademco AS-ODC59B[/post] seems like a sensor that will do this) and if the door is open, close it. My question is, what senor/relay would work with the M1 to activate the switch to close the garage door?

Click to expand...

I have garage door contacts on my doors and they work great. I do stuff like turn the main garage lights on when the doors open, etc. I haven't hooked up the openers too it but this should be easy to do with outputs/relays. I'm in the process of putting some outputs and relays in the garage for irrigation control. Once I have that in adding the openers should be pretty easy.

I think Randy's got you covered, but the one thing that seems skittish is the PIR-triggered camera. The issue would be "when do you want to take the pic"; i'd think you'd have a helluva time figuring out the right instance. Perhaps when they press the doorbell, or some other trigger.

IVB said:

I think Randy's got you covered, but the one thing that seems skittish is the PIR-triggered camera. The issue would be "when do you want to take the pic"; i'd think you'd have a helluva time figuring out the right instance. Perhaps when they press the doorbell, or some other trigger.

Click to expand...

Agreed. I'm thinking the contact closure for the doorbell would be best. PIR based you'd get pics when birds fly by.

good call on the doorbell button. don't need pictures of birds.

ivb, would i need some software other than cqc and ELKRP to do this?

I agree with everything above.

One note about Emails from the M1. It has a very limited number of emails (15 I think) that can be setup and can't really insert dynamic info (like zone names). You can use Nextalarm to monitor and have them email you to get over the limit, but it isn't very customizable either. I use NA to email me about security events, the M1 for security events that require custom text that NA can't handle, and CQC for higher level emails.

On the garage door stuff, I use contacts as well and have the opener wired to the spare output on the M1.

On M1XIN, you need to be aware that there is a slight delay in response for the M1XIN vs. On-board inputs on the M1. It is reasonable for security stuff, but I had a doorbell hardwired to the M1XIN and the delay was noticeable. Moving it to the M1 fixed that.

gacevich said:

ivb, would i need some software other than cqc and ELKRP to do this?

Click to expand...

Yes, software and hardware. What are you going to plug the camera video connections into? A PC-based tuner card (ie, AverMedia NV3000/NV5000), or a dedicated DVR box (a la one of those thingeys that Martin sells).

wuench said:

On the garage door stuff, I use contacts as well and have the opener wired to the spare output on the M1.

Click to expand...

Are you using the onboard relay or just an output? I'd think just an output would be okay since it's a momentary closure but haven't tried it yet.

RandyKnight said:

wuench said:

On the garage door stuff, I use contacts as well and have the opener wired to the spare output on the M1.

Click to expand...

Are you using the onboard relay or just an output? I'd think just an output would be okay since it's a momentary closure but haven't tried it yet.

Click to expand...

I am using Output 3.

wuench said:

RandyKnight said:

wuench said:

On the garage door stuff, I use contacts as well and have the opener wired to the spare output on the M1.

Click to expand...

Are you using the onboard relay or just an output? I'd think just an output would be okay since it's a momentary closure but haven't tried it yet.

Click to expand...

I am using Output 3.

Click to expand...

noob question here...what do u mean u r using Output 3? do u have wires running from Output 3 to the garage door open/close button that is mounted on the wall? or am i completely missunderstaning the wiring because i don't understand how u can run wires to the open/close button so the M1 can close the door and still have the button on the wall work.

gacevich said:

wuench said:

RandyKnight said:

wuench said:

On the garage door stuff, I use contacts as well and have the opener wired to the spare output on the M1.

Click to expand...

Are you using the onboard relay or just an output? I'd think just an output would be okay since it's a momentary closure but haven't tried it yet.

Click to expand...

I am using Output 3.

Click to expand...

noob question here...what do u mean u r using Output 3? do u have wires running from Output 3 to the garage door open/close button that is mounted on the wall? or am i completely missunderstaning the wiring because i don't understand how u can run wires to the open/close button so the M1 can close the door and still have the button on the wall work.

Click to expand...

That is pretty much how I did it. I used the wires from one of the Elk outputs to "jump" the door opening button which is a simple momentary close switch anyway. In fact since I put an ELK keyboard on the wall where the garage door opening button was, I programmed one of the ELK keypad function buttons to trigger the output attached to the garage door and eliminated the separate garge door opening button. One less button to clutter the wall.

As described in some previous threads you can also then get the ELK to announce when the garage door is open and program other keypads throughout the house to close the door when a swirtch is pushed. That way you can close the garage door without having to go to the garage. I prefer not to have the garage door automatically close itself since I don't want it to close on me if I am working in there. Instead the ELK monitors the status of the garage door and if it stays open for 15 minutes the system announces the door is still open. This continues indefinitely. This allows me to close it if I have forgotten or ignore it if I am working. Got this idea from one of the other posters and it has very high WAF!!

Heck .. you could even use the cheap garage door close switch, wire it to a normally open zone and use it to notify the Elk of a push .... then fire the output to close the door.

robolo, is this the basic idea?



randy, if i understand u correctly, the above would also sense the manual activation of the wall switch?

Careful here! There can be a conflict between the garage door controller output voltage and the M1's output voltage.

It would be easier to wire the push button directly to the M1 with a normally open zone definition and let the M1's output relay momentarily close the garage doors input contact.

thanks spanky. each garage door opener is its own M1 zone, and it has an associated M! output to control the door. two sets of wires from the M1 to each door.

here's a WAF programming question which i think is doable, but want to confirm:

can the door chime (people entry door, not garage door) be programmed to operate/not operate based on time of day?