ISY program, light timer

I've been using programs to automatically turn off lights after a specified amount of time and up until now, I've only had a need to do this at locations using switchlinc's Relays (Non-Dimmers). The program is quite simple and works well.....

If Control 'Master Bath Fan' is switched on

Then Wait 10 minutes
Set 'Master Bath Fan' off

I now want to provide the same timer function to some locations which use switchlinc Dimmers and for some reason the same program doesn't shut the light off. Each of the locations have a local level set and it's my understanding that within programs, "switched on" means when the switch button is pushed once. If this is the case, I don't understand why this doesn't work.

I have also tried the following:

if Control 'Master Bath Light" is not switched off

thinking that it would detect any level other than off.

Thank you in advance

I use:

If 'kitchen' is switched on for my dimmers all the time and it triggers no matter what the level is.

If you create a "scene" with the program you can watch it under scene test and see what is triggering and all the communication across the line to see what happens.

If this is the case, I don't understand why this
doesn't work.

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I would need to confirm this, but I suspect that your condition only triggers when receiving an "off" command (evaluating false). My experience is that "control" conditions only triggers an evaluation upon reciept of the identified command. For example, "if control..switched on" evaluates only upon reciept of "on" commands. "If control...switched off" evaluates only upon reciept of "off" commands. Given this, I expect "if control....NOT switched off" evaluates only upon receipt of "off" commands.

First off, I would ask this on the ISY forum if you haven't already. It sounds like the difference here is the level. Are you saying the On Level is not 100%? Maybe you found another "nuance" in ISY programming.

I find the ISY programming to be illogical and complicated. I realize it is hard for them to base something on Insteon's underlying inconsistencies. But it drives me nuts some of the way their logic works. For every light I create that is turned on by a motion detector, I need a minimum of 3 programs. 1 to turn on, 1 to turn off after x mins, and 1 to holddown the on if someone turns the control off with the button.

First off, I would ask this on the ISY forum if you haven't already. It sounds like the difference here is the level. Are you saying the On Level is not 100%? Maybe you found another "nuance" in ISY programming

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The suggestion to ask on the ISY forum is a good one. There is likely a greater population of ISY users that can help.

This "nuance" is pretty well understood there and, apparently, by MikeT. This is one of the reasons for conditions "not on" and "not off". Yes, "on" generally means 100%.

And I am with Mike-MA...I am surprised that your first program does not work with dimmers.

Well if it is the level then you should adjust your IF statement for the actual level instead of On. There are controls for the various OnLevels....

wuench said:

Well if it is the level then you should adjust your IF statement for the actual level instead of On. There are controls for the various OnLevels....

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That seems light a nightmare - there are a lot of levels one might have to account for if someone manually adjusts the dim level.

wuench said:

Well if it is the level then you should adjust your IF statement for the actual level instead of On. There are controls for the various OnLevels....

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Work2Play said:

That seems light a nightmare - there are a lot of levels one might have to account for if someone manually adjusts the dim level.

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There is a "not off" command for this reason

I wish the ISY logic was more like Elks....

Thanks for everyone’s help. It turns out, the two dimmers I tried to control with the timer program were not transmitting event status. I had to unlink and reset both devices and for some reason, they began working fine. I assumed that since they were included within scenes and reacting to other devices, all was working fine.

So, the end result is,

The IF control "device name" is switched ON.... works just fine even for dimmers.

To summarize:
ON means single push
Fast ON means second push

Regarding the use of "NOT OFF".... I have no idea what this does. I expected it to capture the event of a device turned on to any level, saving me the trouble of including ON, Fast ON and Dim as possible triggers.

And as an FYI, in the event the device is shut off locally (manually), there needs to be a program to end the timer as it continues to run.


Mike

Yes, as you discovered the "control switched on" triggers the program anytime someone does a single press on the up side of the paddle (ie it sends an "on" command).

You may also want to include

"or control fade up (press and hold on)"
"or control fast on (double press on)"

to cover the other two ways someone might turn the light on.

and regarding "control not switched on"
The other post is correct. All "control" commands only trigger the program when that actual command is received. So "control not off" means that the program triggers when it receives an "off" command and since it is "not" off that means it is false (since in truth it did receive an "off" command) and executes the "else" line. This is something that you would virtually never use.

HOWEVER.. .don't confuse this with "status not off". This is quite useful. When a status line exists in a program, the program runs every time the status changes. Also, if something else causes the program to run, the status line can still be true. Whereas a control line is ONLY true at the instant ISY received the command. So "status not off" is very useful as a way to check that the current status of the light is anything but totally off. . .and there are lots of times you might want to use that.

Very helpful Lou, thanks!

wuench said:

I wish the ISY logic was more like Elks....

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Wow. I never thought id hear that. I always thought Elk's logic was very limited in comparison to the ISY-99i.

gatchel said:

Wow. I never thought id hear that. I always thought Elk's logic was very limited in comparison to the ISY-99i.

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I've got both and when ISY came out with the Elk module I moved most programs over to ISY if that tells you anything.

Elk is definitely less complicated to do the logic on, but at the same time that simplicity is quite limiting in capability as well.