Hard-Wired Lighting Control Recommendation

Hi;

I am a home builder and am about to do my first new construction with HA integration. I have done much research and have read many posts and articles here but I do need some further guidance since my experience in this area is very limited (almost NONE!).

In this post I like to focus on the "lighting control" aspect of the HA system.

You could say I am from old school, but I have always preferred "hard-wired" solutions over "wireless" solutions (I am using the term "wireless" very loosely as I am including solutions such as the UPB technology)! This is my belief specially when doing a new construction where you have almost "total" freedom of choice.

That said I would like to get some recommendation to choose amongst the "hard-wired" lighting control systems.

The four systems that I am considering are:

• Crestron
• Lutron
• LifeTouch
• Vantage

Can you please make a recommendation amongst these and I would appreciate some sort of reasoning why one is preferred over the other.

Much is appreciated for your help, in advance.

Wow!! 50 views and no replies EXCEPT for one vote??? Am I missing something here? Did I post in the wrong section (I know its the right Forum LOL)!!!

Ok, let me try to break the ice here. The systems you have listed are commercial "closed-end" systems in a sense that it is difficult to impossible to interface other systems with them. Not a good choice for a DIYer, who is probably the dominating crowd here. These systems will have to be installed and programmed by a trained company representative, as well as any future maintenance and/or programming. You may choose to become a dealer and get some training, so that you could do the install. As far as comparison goes, I am not familiar with LifeTouch, but the other three systems will have very similar functionality and the only major difference will be the looks of the components. All three offer their own window treatments. Vantage has very stylish keypads and face-plates. Crestron offers more in A/V department and it is a full home-automation system. Lutron has documentation on their RS232 protocol, so it offers a way to integrate with other systems, if you know how to implement it. You may also take a look at Centralite Elegance hard-wired lighting system. Hope others will pitch in with more comments, but I think it's just not very many HA hobbysts would own such systems.

picta said:

Ok, let me try to break the ice here. The systems you have listed are commercial "closed-end" systems in a sense that it is difficult to impossible to interface other systems with them. Not a good choice for a DIYer, who is probably the dominating crowd here. These systems will have to be installed and programmed by a trained company representative, as well as any future maintenance and/or programming. You may choose to become a dealer and get some training, so that you could do the install. As far as comparison goes, I am not familiar with LifeTouch, but the other three systems will have very similar functionality and the only major difference will be the looks of the components. All three offer their own window treatments. Vantage has very stylish keypads and face-plates. Crestron offers more in A/V department and it is a full home-automation system. Lutron has documentation on their RS232 protocol, so it offers a way to integrate with other systems, if you know how to implement it. You may also take a look at Centralite Elegance hard-wired lighting system. Hope others will pitch in with more comments, but I think it's just not very many HA hobbysts would own such systems.

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THANK YOU!!!

I understand your point and that would explain why no one has really pitched in to make a comment. Obviously with a New Construction I can't go DIY. I need to provide after sale service and I will not be equipped "enough" to take care of that end.

Right now I am approaching dealers for the different HA systems and some are trying to sell me HA systems that support UPB, some are Crestron ONLY and some, irrespective of the HA Control module, do give me a choice of the Lighting Control technology, just like what I have listed. Since, as I mentioned before, I prefer the "hard-wired" route, I thought I get some feedback and see which is more favored here!!

Again thank you for "breaking the ice"!!!

Welcome to CT, Emil!

As picta mentioned, your poll/question is likely the problem with the lack of votes/responses. Though there are some dealers and pros here, much of the community is comprised of DIY fans of HA. To that extent, the closed systems you are considering are not in widespread use with this community.

For a home I had built in 2006/2007, I chose Centralite's LiteJet system. LiteJet is the precursor to the Elegance system. I've been extremely pleased with the system. The only problems I've had is on three separate occasions the loads would not dim properly, coming on at close to 100% and flickering. Rebooting the system by throwing the breakers fixed the problem. This is in almost four years of daily use.

Because of rising costs when building the home, I limited the LiteJet to 24 loads. This was not enough for my 1-1/2 story 3700 sq ft home. I have been supplementing LiteJet with Centralite's JetStream (Zigbee) and Z-Wave. I use HomeSeer to control all these systems, allowing me to use any of the technologies to control each other.

Good luck. Hope this helps.

Kevin

Thank you Kevin.

Your welcome, Emil.

In my case, I know if your poll included "insteon" i probably would have answered. The ability to integrate with isy99i (and the ease of the REST API for the ISY) and have it run interesting programs that go far beyond scene management was the most compelling thing for me.

I started with 3 switches and then as of today I've converted every switch in my house -- and as expensive as they individually seem to be, when I think about the overall cost of the system, I did a whole 2k sqft house for less than $2k in parts including the isy99i.

I don't know the specifics of those systems you listed above, but my one recommendation is that when you choose a system, I would strongly advise one where you're basically using special switches but the house is wired very traditionally; vs. any of the systems that have the wires home-run to specific load centers or dimmers... I've seen too many older homes that had proprietary lighting systems installed and the homeowners generally regret it because it's impossible to get service on, and impossible to replace. As a homebuilder you don't want to scare anyone with the technology upgrades.

Crestron is more of an interface to the other systems listed and not a true centralized load controller.

I've dealt with Vantage and Lutron almost exclusively and then integrate those to Crestron for the GUI and automation aspects.

The largest difference is the amount of conductors and type of wire that needs to be pulled for the controllers to the centralized loads. Vantage IMHO has it easiest, 2 conductors and if you do it continous, you can do almost anything you want and then have a backup if there's a wiring issue in one direction.

+1 DELInstallations
We are large Vantge Controls dealers, Located in Los Angeles.
INHO Vantage has several features that make it better than the rest.
The 2 wire station bus mentioned above plus the pigtails that plug into the keypads, make final connections very easy.
You can loop the wiring to the keypads, or connect anywhere in the middle.
Only a single type of cable connects ANY station, keypads, relays, thermostats, 2000 watt loads, etc.
After you terminate the 120v wiring from the loads (switchlegs), and run the keypad stationbus, you are essentially 90% done.
The dimmer ot relay modules just PLUG-IN the enclosures. On all other systems you still need to connect up to 20 additional 1220v wires. I believe that on NO other system are there fuses that protect the module loads, i.e., if there is a short, with the other systems you will have to take out the module, and hope to have it repaired. This could cost up to a $ 1,200-$1,500 plus labor repair, and maybe several days of downtime. With Vantage the fuse will blow, a $ 2.50 repair, and around a 10minutre downtime. I disagree that you can't find installers or programmers of these wired systems, Lutron, Vantage, LiteTouch, and Crestron have all been around for years, We have been Vantage dealers since 1998. I think that except for Crestron, any dealer for Lutron, Vantage, LiteTouch can download any file and do additional programming. Vantage has manufactured their Qlink system so that it does not become obsolete, and can even be upgraded to the new Infusion keeping up to 80%-95% of the existing equipment depending on the size of the system. It does need to be reprogrammed though.
The keypads for all of the systems vary, but all look good.

Work2Play said:

I don't know the specifics of those systems you listed above, but my one recommendation is that when you choose a system, I would strongly advise one where you're basically using special switches but the house is wired very traditionally; vs. any of the systems that have the wires home-run to specific load centers or dimmers... I've seen too many older homes that had proprietary lighting systems installed and the homeowners generally regret it because it's impossible to get service on, and impossible to replace. As a homebuilder you don't want to scare anyone with the technology upgrades.

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+1 on the above.

I think it is crazy talk to run a dedicated wiring system behind the drywall in your house. They will have you at their mercy forever, and if they go bankrupt you will really be hosed. I know someone who had Creston and sold the house becuase of it. $200 every time the system sneezed, $1000's when it actually got sick. He hated it, and I mean hated it. Not to mention the big time front end cost.

And you mentioned that it is new construction which you felt limited you to one of these systems. That as absolutely not true. First, you can just have the electricians do a totally normal install, then pull switches/outlets and replace with Insteon/UPB/Z-wave, or you can contract with an electrician who will put those in for you in the first place. On my new construction house, I let them do their thing, then pulled what I wanted to replace.

I am a big fan of not having multiple gangs of wall switches throughout the home. Especially in a new home, it sort of defeats the purpose of a system.
In the worst case if you only want a DIY install, have the electrician install all switches in closets, with only master control switches in the rooms. You will get control as well no wall achne. In DIY this should be a win win.

Lou Apo said:

+1 on the above.

I think it is crazy talk to run a dedicated wiring system behind the drywall in your house. They will have you at their mercy forever, and if they go bankrupt you will really be hosed. I know someone who had Creston and sold the house becuase of it. $200 every time the system sneezed, $1000's when it actually got sick. He hated it, and I mean hated it. Not to mention the big time front end cost.

And you mentioned that it is new construction which you felt limited you to one of these systems. That as absolutely not true. First, you can just have the electricians do a totally normal install, then pull switches/outlets and replace with Insteon/UPB/Z-wave, or you can contract with an electrician who will put those in for you in the first place. On my new construction house, I let them do their thing, then pulled what I wanted to replace.

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Lutron combines conventional wiring with hard-wired control. That gives you an option to replace their switches with traditional ones if they go out of business. The installation is more complicated though with the matching high price tag. Wireless switches are not very reliable and also depend on proprietary technology. I know a lot of people who bought an old house and found that their "traditional wiring" does not work, cannot be repaired and the only option is to open up walls and replace it.

I personally like home-run systems. I think they are the future of home wiring. There are many companies that produce automated relays for such systems, and even if they all go out of business tomorrow you still have an option to replace the automated relay with a mechanical one and control it from traditional switch using original cat5 wiring. And the cost of home-run installation is on par or lower than of the traditional wiring (just think about all these gang boxes full of switches and a nightmare of multi-way install). And for the DIYer there is an extra perk: they can control all the relays from HAI or similar controller with relay outputs and without a need for a specialized lighting system.

picta said:

I personally like home-run systems. I think they are the future of home wiring.

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On this point I think the exact opposite. Home runs are the way of 100 years ago when this sort of thing was done only in industrial automation settings and they had walls of relays running everything.

If there is going to be a change in wiring for the future, I think it would be running hot lines throughout the house and then having wifi or similar comm running micro-controllers at the point of use. This would decrease the quantity of wires in house by miles (literally).

The first point to consider is.. .is this your house forever? If you think there is a reasonable chance that you are going to sell the house anytime soon, wire it the old fashioned way. Anything else will scare buyers away (and in my opinion rightfully so).