Reducing wall switch clutter
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iostream212
Active Member
Use less switches
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BraveSirRobbin
Moderator
Touchscreens integrated with an automated system will go a long way on controlling your lighting. Maybe also look into the multiple keypads/buttons offered via the major systems (upb, etc...)
If I was looking to do this I would (and will) install clipsal c-bus or something like it. Having installed it for my AV theatre its the only one I know about. Wouldn't describe it as being traditionally wired as the light is switched/dimmed from a module in your consumer box so each light or bank of common lights has to be fed back to your consumer box. All your switches are on a a seperate CAT5 circuit(s). YOu can buy whatever switch you like with as many buttons as you require. You can program each button to control each light individually or assign a scene/mood/theme to a button. Pretty endless possibilities. Not cheap but I feel it would be worth it if I was building my own house again. Can easily integrate with software automation controllers also - maybe save yourself the price of a few switches. I use mine successfully with CQC which has a driver/plugin for c-bus but I'm sure many other programs have also.
jim
jim
Thank you for your answers. What is the maximum amount of switches that you can have in a single switch box? Could switches like the one in the photo bellow use standard wiring? Using a system with "home-run" wiring such as the one described in the post above I can have many switches in a single box, or even a touch-screen which offers an even greater number. But I want to know how much I can minimize the space that the switches take on the wall (not minimize the number of switches) if I use traditional kind of wiring.
chedemefedeme
Member
The problem with using a single gang switch like you show above with traditional wiring is twofold in my opinion.
1) It would be difficult to wire 6 circuits into a single gang and not break electrical safety code for how full a box can be.
2) You're really eliminating any possibility of you being able to retrofit those circuits with automation systems.
I'm with everyone else. If I built again I would do home run wiring and have a really nice electrical/automation utility room/closet where all electrical in the house was distributed from.
BUT since I didn't do this initially (didn't think much about it at the time but also didnt have the extra dough then) having the house wired normally with normal, single gang per switch setups allowed me to drop Insteon in the whole home with virtually no effort. If you start doing what you're proposing..using combined switches to reduce the size of your wall boxes for switches..you pretty much kill any possibility of drop-in lighting automation in the future.
If you have any interest in automation don't do it. If you truly have interest in reducing switches bite the bullet and do home run wiring..then run cat5 to locations in the home for touchscreens. Perhaps 4 or 5 touchscreens distributed throughout the home. Touchscreens working with occupancy sensors would allow your home to be controlled and lit without plates everywhere.
1) It would be difficult to wire 6 circuits into a single gang and not break electrical safety code for how full a box can be.
2) You're really eliminating any possibility of you being able to retrofit those circuits with automation systems.
I'm with everyone else. If I built again I would do home run wiring and have a really nice electrical/automation utility room/closet where all electrical in the house was distributed from.
BUT since I didn't do this initially (didn't think much about it at the time but also didnt have the extra dough then) having the house wired normally with normal, single gang per switch setups allowed me to drop Insteon in the whole home with virtually no effort. If you start doing what you're proposing..using combined switches to reduce the size of your wall boxes for switches..you pretty much kill any possibility of drop-in lighting automation in the future.
If you have any interest in automation don't do it. If you truly have interest in reducing switches bite the bullet and do home run wiring..then run cat5 to locations in the home for touchscreens. Perhaps 4 or 5 touchscreens distributed throughout the home. Touchscreens working with occupancy sensors would allow your home to be controlled and lit without plates everywhere.
sda
Active Member
P&S makes a 4 switch device that fits in a single gang.
http://www.legrand.us/passandseymour/switches/residential/decorator/tm81111wcc.aspx
You can get more fill space by using a metal 2 gang box and a single gang mud ring.
You can get lots of space by using a metal 4-11/16 square x 2-1/8 deep box and mud ring. That gives you about 45 c.i. and plenty of room, even enough for a 6 switch device and 7 12/2 cables. Good luck with that.
http://www.legrand.us/passandseymour/switches/residential/decorator/tm81111wcc.aspx
You can get more fill space by using a metal 2 gang box and a single gang mud ring.
You can get lots of space by using a metal 4-11/16 square x 2-1/8 deep box and mud ring. That gives you about 45 c.i. and plenty of room, even enough for a 6 switch device and 7 12/2 cables. Good luck with that.
Thanks. So I guess the conclusion is that if I need more that 4 switches in a single box then I have to do a home-run wiring?
In some other thread somebody mentioned that Lutron Grafik Eye can replace a bank of switches. I was hoping that with something like that I could have 8 or more loads connected to it directly .. no?
In some other thread somebody mentioned that Lutron Grafik Eye can replace a bank of switches. I was hoping that with something like that I could have 8 or more loads connected to it directly .. no?
Neurorad
Senior Member
The problem I have with the Lutron GE is the ugly factor. It's the size of a bank of switches.
Here is the Lutron GE master thread at AVS.
If you want to get rid of switch banks, then spend the money and home run the loads. Vantage, Lutron, Centralite, and LiteTouch make control systems for home-run loads. It's not a novel concept.
Call a local Lutron HomeWorks dealer and ask to see a demo. These systems are designed for easy integration into whole-house control systems. They are more expensive than your average lighting control system. If you want cheaper, look at LiteTouch and Centralite and avoid HW and Vantage.
If esthetics are most important, use Lutron HW. Best selection of colors, finishes, engraving, and form factors for keypad controls. GrafikEye control is an option with HW. The newest HomeWorks system is called HW QS.
HomeWorks Design & Style Guide
http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/367-2017a.pdf
Since you were asking about security systems, I'll mention that security can be tied into lighting - exterior lights flash when alarm goes off, exterior motion detectors tied into exterior lights, arming security system can turn lights off, turn all the lights on or off (or any combination) from a bedside tabletop keypad, 'vaction mode' where your lights turn on and off when you're on vacation, and exit pathway lit for smoke alarm. Of course, most automated lighting systems are capable of these functions.
Edit - HomeWorks can also be used with a conventional wiring configuration. You could consider a hybrid system with HomeWorks - home-run the loads where esthetics are most important.
Here is the Lutron GE master thread at AVS.
If you want to get rid of switch banks, then spend the money and home run the loads. Vantage, Lutron, Centralite, and LiteTouch make control systems for home-run loads. It's not a novel concept.
Call a local Lutron HomeWorks dealer and ask to see a demo. These systems are designed for easy integration into whole-house control systems. They are more expensive than your average lighting control system. If you want cheaper, look at LiteTouch and Centralite and avoid HW and Vantage.
If esthetics are most important, use Lutron HW. Best selection of colors, finishes, engraving, and form factors for keypad controls. GrafikEye control is an option with HW. The newest HomeWorks system is called HW QS.
HomeWorks Design & Style Guide
http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/367-2017a.pdf
Since you were asking about security systems, I'll mention that security can be tied into lighting - exterior lights flash when alarm goes off, exterior motion detectors tied into exterior lights, arming security system can turn lights off, turn all the lights on or off (or any combination) from a bedside tabletop keypad, 'vaction mode' where your lights turn on and off when you're on vacation, and exit pathway lit for smoke alarm. Of course, most automated lighting systems are capable of these functions.
Edit - HomeWorks can also be used with a conventional wiring configuration. You could consider a hybrid system with HomeWorks - home-run the loads where esthetics are most important.
This is an interesting thread... Are there any z-wave solutions to do this type of thing?
The only one I can think of is the Leviton VRCZ4 that has one virtual node that controls a light, plus 4 controller buttons that can trigger events (assuming you use a PC or Vera) or directly control other z-wave devices. It'd be nice if options with 4 and 6 virtual nodes were offered.
The only one I can think of is the Leviton VRCZ4 that has one virtual node that controls a light, plus 4 controller buttons that can trigger events (assuming you use a PC or Vera) or directly control other z-wave devices. It'd be nice if options with 4 and 6 virtual nodes were offered.
Most of my switch clutter comes heavy use of 3 and 4 way circuits in the original wiring. If instead of n-ways, you only wire a single switch for each fixture, you can use a "smart switch" to add n-way fuctionality to each switch. I use Simple Automated UPB switches but there are lots of other option. One drawback with any of these solutions is that you end up with something non-standard which may create an issue (or opportunity) when you go to sell.
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