Need help deciding on where to start

Hello all,

I just joined your community yesterday, and I am very new to this home automation. I have talked to a couple of guys on this forum and they thought that I should post up a topic in a forum more designed to help than in the "Hello World" newbie forum. So here goes.

One of the person's that I was talking to yesterday thought that I should give some basic information about what I have in place already, what type of system do I need and or want, and what I want to control with it.


Some basic info.

1) How big is your home?
2300 sq ft

2) How much money are you considering spending?
$1500-$2000, but not all at once, over time, and more if needed.

3) How much stuff do you want to automate?
I want to start with HVAC, and work my way into security, doors, lights, audio & video etc....

4) Is your old security system hard wired and if so, is the wiring as complete as you need? Are there wires to the touchpads and if so are they at least 4 stranded?
Old security system is hard wired I believe, and not sure about being as complete as I need. Don't know about the stranded wires or not. I'm not sure how to check. It was originally setup by On-Q.

5) How old is your house, or a better question, is it new enough that you have a common wire to every box?
My house was built in and finished in late 2004

6) Are you comfortable working with basic electrical wiring and would you be willing to program your system (if/then/else type stuff)
I am not super familiar with basic wiring, but I can learn. I have done simple jobs, such as wiring in dimmer switches, and hooking up ceiling fans. And yes, I would love to learn how to program my system, so I can set it up to my needs.

These are the common systems to diy HA as I have been told

Elk M1G
HAI
UPB
Insteon
Zwave


So that is a little bit about what I have and what I want to do. What I need to know is, what is a good starting point? I am researching some HA stuff now, and will continue too. I appreciate any information that anyone can send my way.

Thanks

You need to decide if you want to use a hardware controller or PC based controller. The ELK is capable of doing some automation and may be a good place to start. I personally use HomeSeer ( http://homeseer.com/ for a free 30 day trial) running on a low powered PC and it integrates all of my home automation, from text to speech to all rooms in the house and the front porch and rear deck, to my lighting, HVAC, Z-Wave door locks, mini blind controllers, touch screens, etc. HomeSeer can control just about any hardware device you can throw at it. There are other packages I've just not used them.

Welcome!

This is a question that comes up all the time here, as I'm sure you'd imagine. There's no single best answer - it comes down to so many things that just require some research and opinions. How do you feel about an appliance vs. a PC running your house? Do you like radio control or powerline (for lights)? Just how much stuff do you want to be able to do with your security system?

Each of these takes some research - and there are a lot of different options, and most people have a strong reason why they went the way they did... some hate the idea of a PC running anything important; some don't want a PC on all the time; some like the fact that HAI seems to have one of everything in the market so you could built an all-HAI setup if you wanted to; some prefer diversity; the list goes on and on.

My advice is to carve this up into smaller chunks you can research and think about. For me it took a good 6 months of looking around and studying before I started making decisions and moving forward.

A little about my setup:

• Elk M1G - At the time HAI wasn't DIY friendly, and I like the KP2 keypad recess mounted the best. Otherwise there's not much difference at the end of the day between the two panels and what they're capable of. They support the same basic integration options with other manufacturers, and cost is about the same when built out equally. One difference is the Elk has less built in out of the box - you get it there with expansion modules; HAI just comes with more onboard. You can start cheaper with the Elk if you don't need the options; but if you equip them about the same they're pretty equal.
• UPB lighting. I didn't want to deal with the z-wave networks and the protocol wasn't as mature as it is now. Z-Wave is cheaper thought and showing up everywhere - like home depot, fry's, etc. If I were to do it again tomorrow (and I did get to start over 9 months ago), I'd still go Simply Automated UPB. See the link in my signature for a bunch more info on that topic.
• RCS Thermostats - Honestly I loved my HAI at the last house and it integrated very well with the M1; but in this house I have a 3 (4 soon) zone system off a single HVAC system - and RCS has an all-in-one solution for that. HAI's omnistat2 is quite sexy though and I would've loved to go that route.
• Elk add-ons for garage door control; sprinklers, etc.
• WGL W800RF32 X10RF Transciever - Lets me use those really cheap X10 RF remotes and translate them into commands my UPB lighting system or security system can use.
• Elve - I'm barely using this because of lack of time - but Elve seems like an awesome piece of software and with the $99 into price I can tinker to my heart's desire and it seems to be extremely powerful. I can't wait to build some touchscreens based on Elve to really get control of the house. Also it handles some of my less critical rules at the moment. I like the mission-critical stuff directly on the elk because it never fails. Also I run this on my HP MediaSmart Windows Home Server so it's out of the way and always on.

I personally don't have time to tinker with my systems - so at one point I considered switching to HAI purely for the idea of being able to plug everything into each other and turn it on and just have it work... but I don't necessarily think HAI does everything *best* - even if they do everything. At the end of the day, I like Elk as a company and I like my M1 and everything I have with it (including eKeypad). I'm very happy with my UPB setup; and I do plan to also add-in z-wave someday to handle door-lcoks as well.

So - good luck in your research - it's a long journey. And, start preparing to spend more money!

Thanks for the replies guys. On that note, I do not know if I want pc controlled or hardware controlled. I am not against either one of them, seeing as how I really don't know anything about either one of these. Now I am not against a pc based setup, because I do have a computer that I call my server (more of just a file sharing pc with some minor server apps running), that runs 24-7. I am very familiar with pc's and new software does not scare me. Hardware control would be nice too, and I bet it is more expensive to purchase, or atleast that would be my guess. So lets just say I go with a pc based setup, what do I need to get first, and where is a good place to get prices on pc based hardware that you guys could recommend?

Maxwell881 said:

Thanks for the replies guys. On that note, I do not know if I want pc controlled or hardware controlled. I am not against either one of them, seeing as how I really don't know anything about either one of these. Now I am not against a pc based setup, because I do have a computer that I call my server (more of just a file sharing pc with some minor server apps running), that runs 24-7. I am very familiar with pc's and new software does not scare me. Hardware control would be nice too, and I bet it is more expensive to purchase, or atleast that would be my guess. So lets just say I go with a pc based setup, what do I need to get first, and where is a good place to get prices on pc based hardware that you guys could recommend?

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I would recommend downloading a few trials and give the software a try. If you trial HomeSeer and need an additional trial just let us know on the HomeSeer message board and we can get you another. My advice would be to pick your most important project and start with that and work you way into your new hobby.

Thank you Rupp for the information. I think that I will download the software and just getting familiar with the interface. Do I need to buy any hardware, or should I even consider it until I play around with the software?

I have another question for everyone. With setting up a house with all this automation, what has happened or could happen when there is a power loss? I would just be a little concerned that I get all this setup over the next couple of months, to have a power outage just kill everything. Are there systems in place to take action if something like this happens?

Maxwell881 said:

I have another question for everyone. With setting up a house with all this automation, what has happened or could happen when there is a power loss? I would just be a little concerned that I get all this setup over the next couple of months, to have a power outage just kill everything. Are there systems in place to take action if something like this happens?

Click to expand...

Are you talking about power outages killing switches? We've had our share of power outages lately ( 7 straight days and then 10-12 outages since then) and everything is fine once the power is restored. HomeSeer has an option to run a catch up event once power is restored. My HomeSeer server is connected to a UPS that keeps the server up and running for about 30 minutes and then it gracefully shuts down. Once power is restored it reboots and HomeSeer starts back up.

I guess what I am asking about when it comes to power outages is, for example, if you had door locks that were on the network would you not be able to get in or out? I don't really know how to ask the question, but I am a little concerned with power outages. I live near Austin TX, and we do have our share of power problems, maybe once a month we may loose power for a mere second or two but that is really it. Maybe you answered my question by putting the pc on a UPS to keep it active, I am just wondering about the rest of the hardware not connected directly to the UPS.

The Z-Wave automated door locks have alternative methods of getting in. Most still have keys. This is something you do need to take in consideration when you automate though. If my PC completely fails my house would continue to run as normal. I would just have to get up and adjust the thermostat, turn on the light, etc.

Now that's the answer that I have been looking for. That is exactly what I want, when power goes out, or the PC fails, I still have control, all be it, manually, but still have control. This is the only thing that has been making me nervous about getting into this, believe it or not. All right, now I am excited. So I am going to download the HSPRO trial, and see what it is all about. Hey by the way Rupp, I just signed up on the seer forum, and if I'm not mistaken, I saw your name on there earlier. Anyways, good to see some people jumping between forums to help others, I appreciate it.

Rupp, what is the first piece of hardware you would recommend someone like me, a newbie, to get?

Maxwell881 said:

Now that's the answer that I have been looking for. That is exactly what I want, when power goes out, or the PC fails, I still have control, all be it, manually, but still have control. This is the only thing that has been making me nervous about getting into this, believe it or not. All right, now I am excited. So I am going to download the HSPRO trial, and see what it is all about. Hey by the way Rupp, I just signed up on the seer forum, and if I'm not mistaken, I saw your name on there earlier. Anyways, good to see some people jumping between forums to help others, I appreciate it.

Rupp, what is the first piece of hardware you would recommend someone like me, a newbie, to get?

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Welcome to the journey - a good place to start is with plug-in modules or devices - nothing to wire and it allows you to get a feel for the technology. If you are going to download Homeseer you will need a Z-Wave controller to allow the software to communicate with the z-wave devices - here are couple to to look at the Aeon Labs Z-Stick, or the Controlthink Stick or a Z-Troller. B)

Maxwell881 said:

Now that's the answer that I have been looking for. That is exactly what I want, when power goes out, or the PC fails, I still have control, all be it, manually, but still have control. This is the only thing that has been making me nervous about getting into this, believe it or not.

Click to expand...

As Rupp stated if the power went down or the computer died the devices in your house would still work - if the power is out the z-wave locks still function as they are battery-powered Since normal switches won't work if the power is out neither will the Z-Wave switches unless your have a whole-house generator but that another thread. If you have electric and the computer is off/died Z-Wave can still function depending on what devices you have installed and the use of associations - which allows one device to control another device

Hey thanks in toz-wave,

If I wanted to get a controller, which I think is a good idea, do I need a gateway? If not, how does the homeseer software control the z-wave object? Or am I just missing something? I cannot visualize how the controller works, other than using it like a remote, so it is still on demand, not programmed...... Right?

Maxwell881 said:

Hey thanks in toz-wave,

If I wanted to get a controller, which I think is a good idea, do I need a gateway? If not, how does the homeseer software control the z-wave object? Or am I just missing something? I cannot visualize how the controller works, other than using it like a remote, so it is still on demand, not programmed...... Right?

Click to expand...

The Z-wave controller like the Z-Stick or the Z-Troller is the interface between a computer and the Z-Wave devices - HomeSeer software or the HomeSeer Hardware Controllers need a Z-Wave controller to communicate with z-wave devices. The hardware controllers are specialized pc's running XP embedded and the Homeseer software -a couple of nice features of the hardware controllers is no moving parts and HS-Sentry when the power goes out and comes back on the controller picks up where it left off