Wireless Sensors, are they acceptable?

My wife has asked that we get a security system in the house. Being the DIY type of guy and the fact that I have been itching to install a Home Automation system I am jumping at the chance to install my own system. One issue I have is this is a 40 year old colonial house that is 2 stories with a finished basements. Good news is one corner of the basement was finished with a drop ceiling so it makes some wiring a little easier but for a large portion of the first floor windows and doors would not be easily accessible.

So my question. Using security systems like the Elk M1 Gold with a wireless system like GE for the zone sensors (windows, doors, PIR) what issues or short failings would have I have that I would not have with wired?

The obvious ones I see are maintenance of replacing batteries, how long do the batteries typically last?
Cost is another, just looking around it will be pricey putting sensors on every window and door, if I just did the 1st floor I have about 22 windows/doors.

Any other issues or shortcoming with wireless?

Last question is with smoke/heat detectors and wireless, should I do whatever is needed to hardwire them or is running wireless ones ok?

Thanks, I am sure I will have more questions as I continue to plan.

hagak said:

My wife has asked that we get a security system in the house. Being the DIY type of guy and the fact that I have been itching to install a Home Automation system I am jumping at the chance to install my own system. One issue I have is this is a 40 year old colonial house that is 2 stories with a finished basements. Good news is one corner of the basement was finished with a drop ceiling so it makes some wiring a little easier but for a large portion of the first floor windows and doors would not be easily accessible.

So my question. Using security systems like the Elk M1 Gold with a wireless system like GE for the zone sensors (windows, doors, PIR) what issues or short failings would have I have that I would not have with wired?

The obvious ones I see are maintenance of replacing batteries, how long do the batteries typically last?
Cost is another, just looking around it will be pricey putting sensors on every window and door, if I just did the 1st floor I have about 22 windows/doors.

Any other issues or shortcoming with wireless?

Last question is with smoke/heat detectors and wireless, should I do whatever is needed to hardwire them or is running wireless ones ok?

Thanks, I am sure I will have more questions as I continue to plan.

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I asked a similar question in my head when I started. The only answer I could come up with was that it was a moot point. I absolutely couldn't get to most of my windows and doors, especially with spray foam insulation and the number of windows and doors we have (I think it's like 77 in the entire home). In the past year and a half, I haven't had to change many batteries (maybe 3), although I have had to deal with the sensors falling off when the door slams too hard. Wireless is quite expensive, I bought most of my NX-454 Sensors off of eBay and it still cost me around $30 each. I bought a couple ION Micra sensors to mess around with and I wish they were around when I was installing my system. They too are around $30 bucks. Motion sensors will knock your socks off, about $85 vs $30 (wireless vs wired).

I am in the process of changing one part of the house over to wired though. The garage and theater are a bit too far and the temperature changes of the garage make it a little unreliable. The sensors I stuck on the garage doors keep falling off, so I bought some wired sensors. I plan to just put a M1 expander board (connected via Cat5 to the databus hub) and add as many sensors as I want to that part of the house (and have shorter runs). If you go wireless, you will probably still need more than just the 16 inputs on the M1 board. Mine have added up quite quickly.

As for smoke detectors, I have wired. I was able to add wires to one of my smoke detectors and change it over to a relay alarm (GE 350CX or 350CC I forget which one is the relay). It won't tell me which room the fire is in, but it knows that there is a fire. I'm not sure if your home will have all your smokes linked or not though.

Currently my home only has the cheap home depot smoke detectors that are just screwed to the wall and have a 9V battery. I would like to improve my smoke/fire detection.

I've professionally installed GE (formerly ITI) wireless and Ademco (Honeywell) wireless. We're presently using the M1G for higher end projects, and now the M1G supports both GE and Honeywell RF products.

Honeywell has GE beat hands down for variety and types of RF detectors. Range is about the same, as is battery life.

GE used to offer "long life" sensors with a larger battery, warrantied for 10 years, but has since discontinued it, which takes away a lot of the benefits of using GE wireless products and evens the playing field. I've had batteries last in the GE "standard" units for about 6 years, easily. Honeywell, it seems to be from 4 years up to about 7-8 on average. The variable is temperature swings and how many times the device transmits. GE has a slight edge in range, but I doubt that most would see the difference in the majority of installs out there.

RF is perfectly acceptable given the options of being able to run wires without destroying the property. Asthetics come into play compared to a hardwired unit, as they're usually somewhat larger or surface mounted. The other slight downside is you're stuck with a single manufacturer for all the devices, so if (in my case) I don't like GE's offering for GBD's but I have a use for their motion, it's generally a compromise...unless I install a GE and Honeywell reciever on the M1 (haven't had to do that YET!).

Wireless adds up cost wise in devices, however the man-hour cost is less, so compared to a lot of hardwired setups, it's a wash, unless you're providing free labor. Maintenance wise I tell people to plan on replacing the batteries at the same time...all of them, to avoid chasing the low battery ghost around the house. It adds up, but you're looking at a 5 year plan on average, same time as when the panel battery is due anyways.

I have installed wireless sensors in my house and now wish I didn't, I have been slowly replacing them with wired runs. I have found that even though they claim 10 year battery life, that they don't have that probably having sat on the shelf for years at a distributor. In 3 years I have already replaced several sensors, also some came with a weak signal out of the box and I had to argue with the distributor (Worthington) to return them because they tested ok on the their bench probably with the receiver right next to the sensor.

If you do get them, make sure the batteries are replaceable/accessible, but if you have the ability to run the wires it is the way to go. And make sure you test each one before you install it.

wuench said:

I have installed wireless sensors in my house and now wish I didn't, I have been slowly replacing them with wired runs. I have found that even though they claim 10 year battery life, that they don't have that probably having sat on the shelf for years at a distributor. In 3 years I have already replaced several sensors, also some came with a weak signal out of the box and I had to argue with the distributor (Worthington) to return them because they tested ok on the their bench probably with the receiver right next to the sensor.

If you do get them, make sure the batteries are replaceable/accessible, but if you have the ability to run the wires it is the way to go. And make sure you test each one before you install it.

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I guess it comes down to if you're dealing with a trade supplier or retail. I don't know of any of the current GE or Honeywell units that don't offer a field replacable battery. Care to elaborate on what you have so I can be informed?

i got a Elk M1 with Honeywell wireless receiver to use with Ademco devices. i went wireless only because at the time I didn't know how to install the wired sensors. I wanted the security system up and running as fast as possible without buying the tools and learning how to fish wire to the doors and windows. Now i know how to wire some things but since everything has been reliable and trouble free i am not inclined to rewire them right now.

Although the door window transmitters are fairly large, i got use to it quickly. As for the sensors falling off the door and wall, i screwed them in with the supplied screws on all the sensors that trigger a burglar alarm.

I dont mind changing the batteries. it's only once every few years and the batteries are like <$1 each online. I get a trouble alert when the batteries go low, so its not hard to figure out which ones need to be changed out.

the door window sensors are admittedly pricey, but i got them in bulk packs of 10 on ebay. i bought used or discontinued motion sensors, smokes, and glass break sensors.

The house didnt come with smoke detectors or the wiring for them so i bought discontinued ademco wireless smokes on ebay (maybe $50 each). The smoke sensor is able to tell me if the battery is low, if its unscrewed from the wall, if the temp sensor detects a rapid rise in temp, and lastly if there's smoke and which sensor picked it up.

all in all I'm pretty satisfied and they are perfectly acceptable for me.

Thanks for the info. I feel more confident in going with a wireless option now. Knowing that on avg. most batteries in the window and door sensors can last upwards of 4-5 years makes battery replacement a bit of a non-issue. I would want to physically inspect each sensor more often than that anyhow.

I assume if you use a wireless receiver such as this one for honeywell sensors ELK-M1XRF2H That each of the 144 wireless zones can be treated the same in the Elk controller as any of the hardwired zones?

With any of the M1 controls, when using wireless, the first 16 zones are already used/reserved.

DELInstallations said:

With any of the M1 controls, when using wireless, the first 16 zones are already used/reserved.

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? Does this mean that if you use a wireless receiver that you can no longer use the first 16 hardwire zones on the M1 and if you want to use any hardwire zones at all you also need to get an zone expander board?

No, they'll always exist and be usable, they're already assigned to the board, just the first possible group you can put any expansion zone would be 17. Same goes with an EZ8, the first zone available for expansion (HW or RF)is 17, even though the EZ8 only has 8 on board zones.

For example, an M1 with 3 HW expanders, the first RF group available is group 5 (65-80) so if my last hardwired zone is say....57, then there's zones(58-64) already reserved by the hardwired expander, irregardless of any connections or not. Same goes in reverse with the RF receiver. Each group takes 16 zones as a block and assigns them, either RF or HW.

What you can't do is hop zones, hardwired/wireless, say if you had a hardwired door next to a wireless point and you wanted them to be contiguous numbers. You can't, for example, have zone 1 HW, 2-5, RF then 6 HW (or on expanders).

DELInstallations said:

No, they'll always exist and be usable, they're already assigned to the board, just the first possible group you can put any expansion zone would be 17. Same goes with an EZ8, the first zone available for expansion (HW or RF)is 17, even though the EZ8 only has 8 on board zones.

For example, an M1 with 3 HW expanders, the first RF group available is group 5 (65-80) so if my last hardwired zone is say....57, then there's zones(58-64) already reserved by the hardwired expander, irregardless of any connections or not. Same goes in reverse with the RF receiver. Each group takes 16 zones as a block and assigns them, either RF or HW.

What you can't do is hop zones, hardwired/wireless, say if you had a hardwired door next to a wireless point and you wanted them to be contiguous numbers. You can't, for example, have zone 1 HW, 2-5, RF then 6 HW (or on expanders).

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That makes sense. So you are basically saying I can not "remove" the first 16 hardwire and get those back to use elsewhere say if I was bumping up against the 208 zone limit. That makes sense. I do not see where the importance of having sequential number of the zones matter though? Do I really lose anything if I have a hardwired door contact on Zone 1 and the window next to the door is using an RF contact so it is on say Zone 17. Is there some programming limitation that I can not do because they are in different blocks?

After reviewing my wiring options I may be able to run wires for a few zones without much issue but most of the house will need wireless. So these questions are very helpful to me in my planning stages.

You'd be amazed at some of the things that our clients can complain about

You can't remove those 16 zones from the panel and end up with 208 RF zones (200 on the EZ8), with a maximum RF zones available being 144. Zones 193-208 are already reserved for keypad zones or supervised power supply zones (enrolled as a keypad). Zones 161-192 are used for either a redundant receiver or a XIN only.

No real program limitations, only when you're viewing items via the RMS software or a touchscreen interface and possibly in a GUI interface to AMX or Crestron or another third party, depending on the GUI as designed and programmed, such as a screen for viewing security status of zones, if it auto-arranges by zone number.

I'll also add that I strongly prefer Wired motion sensors over wireless. Wireless tend to send a signal when they detect motion, and the panel just remembers that then auto-expires after a set amount of time. They have a lockout so if someone is moving a lot in an area it doesn't keep resending the trigger. For automation you get better and more accurate motion status with wired sensors, and you have better options for pet-immune dual-tech or quad-tech.


And of course you need to wire your keypads... I know a lot of people wire 1, maybe 2 keypads for the whole house - some place central; I really believe in a custom install you should have one by each primary entrance (garage door, front door) and ALWAYS one in the master bedroom, with the speakers behind the keypads; that way you get alerted if you're in bed, and when you jump up in the middle of the night to see what triggered the alarm, you can see the affected zones right there. Advantage is that each keypad has a zone input so you can use that one for the door next to it.


For doors/windows, as said above, sometimes it's just not an option - and usually not a cost-effective option to retrofit - especially windows... wireless is pricey but it's quick and easy (wouldn't that be horrible if someone broke in using a window you hadn't gotten to wiring yet?). Also, some of the wireless sensors accept external contacts as well meaning you can use them to adapt any hardwired sensor to a wireless one (think garage door sensors, water, etc) - except it won't provide power for things like smoke/glassbreak/motions.

DELInstallations said:

I guess it comes down to if you're dealing with a trade supplier or retail. I don't know of any of the current GE or Honeywell units that don't offer a field replacable battery. Care to elaborate on what you have so I can be informed?

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They were all Caddx NX-458's door/window sensors.