Elk M1 vs. an HAI system

I'm a noob regarding this, but have been trying to do research on the 2 systems. What are people's thoughts on the "better" system to go with.

Also, which model and components would be recommended.

The house was built in the early 60's and not wired.

Any help/thoughts would be appreciated. TIA

Hi Coop,

Welcome! This is a very common topic amongst the boards... a couple years ago HAI didn't support DIY, so this place was all Elk - but now HAI has shown a lot of active development into new products and they've actively embraced DIY through CocoonTech.

There's one member of the board who has previously installed an Elk and now has an HAI - and he has been a wealth of information every time this comes up. He does a good job of not really showing favortism when giving an objective comparison. Unfortunately I can't paste the exact search query in here, but here's what I did that'll get you great results:

Do an Advanced Search up above
Search for the words: Elk HAI
From Author: Steve
Search in Section: Forums
Display Results: As Posts
All other options leave defaulted.

Try that, and read until you get bored... if you want you can drill into specific questions for more detail about the original poster's questions.

The shortest answer of all, is that either one will probably do anything you're trying to do... An HAI advantage is that if you go with all thier stuff, there's not much to integrating it all; you can buy their audio, their touchscreens, their lighting, their security, etc... and tie it all together very simply. Now where Steve will correct me again most likely - is that HAI still supports the common 3rd party systems too, so if you have the HAI with Simply Automated UPB and Nuvo Audio - you can still get it all working together just about as easily. Elk does have their little touchscreen but I really don't think it comes close to what the HAI's touchscreen controllers can do.

An Elk advantage is that you can generally start smaller and buy each part as you need it - but I found that to be a partially pointless approach, since I turned around and ordered all the extra stuff 2 weeks after my first "small" order.

:hesaid:

Yea, best advice is search and read till you can't stand it anymore and then you will still have the same question! It's almost like Ford or Chevy, they'll both get you there, they just operate a little differently. Your hardest part will be the wiring which is preferred, otherwise you'll have to do alot of wireless. Both systems support GE wireless but HAI also has their own proprietary wireless for which they have some unique devices like a driveway sensor.

These days HAI is a more complete solution and if you want simple integration of almost all aspects they are probably preferred. And yes, you can integrate (with built in support) most other popular 3rd party stuff like Nuvo, RadioRa, Centralite, etc. But I would not hesitate to use Elk either. Elk has been quiet but I'm guessing they are like an old volcano and may erupt at any time with a bunch of new stuff. So it will really boil down to a few specifics of what you want, one is really not 'better' than the other.

Thank you both for the response. I have been busy the last few days reading and doing more research on these two systems

I agree with everything being said. I went with ELK back when HAI wasn't really DIY friendly. Just make sure you are paying attention to the dates of the posts when researching. Understand that a lot of the HAI negativity a couple years back has been corrected, so don't let that cloud your judgement.

HAI is a little more expensive up front, but also has more "out of the box" capabilities. To get to the same level with ELK, you must purchase some of the add on components. In the end, price is probably pretty similar for a comparable system.

Honestly, at this point I think HAI is probably a better choice due to a lot of recent development and capabilities that have been added to the system. ELK hasn't come out with a lot in the last year or two and IMHO has fallen slightly behind. It is quite possible that ELK will come out with new stuff soon that will flip the balance back to their side. This seesaw of benefits has changed a couple of times during the life of both units and I expect it to continue.

In the end, I don't really think there is a bad choice between the two. You just need to really think about your needs and look at the two units to see which fits those needs better.

Personally, I don't like "sleeping" with a single manufacturer, as HAI wants you to do, I like the ability to use any vendor's devices, barring a few circumstances. As a dealer for both, each has their place, but given the overall flexibility and choice involved, I'm more partial to the Elk than HAI.

The "unique" devices that HAI offers like the driveway sensor aren't deal killers when I can take the same device and install it on the Elk, or something that works even better just as easily.

I really don't look at it that way. HAI does offer complete integrated components if you want them but they are not closed. They support pretty much all the major 3rd party vendors. What extra choice and flexibility do you have with Elk?

How can you install the HAI driveway sensor on the Elk? There are great wired driveway system like Cartell but no generic wireless ones that are integrated well.

Not trying to be argumentative, I agree with choice, I just want to understand how you have more choice with Elk?

Steve said:

I really don't look at it that week. HAI does offer complete integrated components if you want them but they are not closed. They support pretty much all the major 3rd party vendors. What extra choice and flexibility do you have with Elk?

How can you install the HAI driveway sensor on the Elk? There are great wired driveway system like Cartell but no generic wireless ones that are integrated well.

Not trying to be argumentative, I agree with choice, I just want to understand how you have more choice with Elk?

Click to expand...

+1, I was wondering the same thing.

Steve said:

I really don't look at it that week. HAI does offer complete integrated components if you want them but they are not closed. They support pretty much all the major 3rd party vendors. What extra choice and flexibility do you have with Elk?

How can you install the HAI driveway sensor on the Elk? There are great wired driveway system like Cartell but no generic wireless ones that are integrated well.

Not trying to be argumentative, I agree with choice, I just want to understand how you have more choice with Elk?

Click to expand...

Resolution Wireless makes a wireless driveway sensor that will work with the ELK. I have not tried it yet myself.

Mier products, Dakota alert and others are an easy integration into the M1 wirelessly, not to mention they are far more asthetically pleasing. HAI's sensor is a universal unit with their own transmitter installed. I forgot who makes it, but there's a "universal" version out there that can have a system transmitter installed.

I'm a dealer for both products and I've had far better experiences talking to Elk and the engineers over there working on integration compared to HAI. I've found that HAI is nice if your end client wants to maintain a straight across the board platform and integrate into some manufacturers, but wants a single name on most of their hardware. When there's an issue, it's been easier to get an answer from NC over LA. I've installed plenty of each in multi-million dollar projects over the past few years that the M1 has been out, and by this, I mean jobs where the security system budget alone was 6 digits, not including integration and automation.

The one place that HAI is somewhat stronger IMHO is integrated audio and some of the out of the box simple lighting setup.

I've found that Elk is more robust in the security end while HAI has a couple of stronger points in the HA side. I explain it to clients as there's Chevy and Ford. I view Elk as a security panel first that does automation and other functions, and HAI as an automation panel that does security, and you have to view which is more important to your application. I've found that Elk has better troubleshooting tools that are of value for a pro dealer/installer, as well as their smart power supply, albeit it's limited in power output, it doesn't need to eat zones for supervision. Pros and cons for each platform, like I said before. I think IMHO Elk has their engineering together for the pro dealer and integrator, especially when you look at the troubleshooting and testing sections of their panels.

The big thing is cost, you can get a pretty nice Elk setup for less than the HAI panel, but if you compare apples to apples with hardware needed to level the playing field, then you're looking at the same cost overall.

The big perk to Elk in my area of the country, with retrofits and integration NOT being new construction is the fact I can wire modules (99% of the time) anywhere on the 485 bus and not have to worry about connecting it all at the main board, which HAI is a must. We're limited at times to having a piece of a closet on each floor or small utility space somewhere, in addition to the normal electrical spot, so in those cases it is far easier to integrate an Elk with other hardware when space is a premium or connecting to other vendors to provide automation on one platform.

DELInstallations said:

Mier products, Dakota alert and others are an easy integration into the M1 wirelessly, not to mention they are far more asthetically pleasing.

Click to expand...

Please clarify. I assume you mean these are wireless detection transmitter/receiver units that are hardwired to Elk zones? I wasn't aware of either of these brands working wirelessly with an Elk or GE receiver directly. If so, can you point me to the appropriate models please?

the reasons stated by DEL are the reasons why I chose an ELK instead of HAI
nobody can't put a price to human life, protection should be first, automating everything else should be something we can all live without.

WayneW said:

Please clarify. I assume you mean these are wireless detection transmitter/receiver units that are hardwired to Elk zones? I wasn't aware of either of these brands working wirelessly with an Elk or GE receiver directly. If so, can you point me to the appropriate models please?

Click to expand...

As Dave said, there are a lot of Resolution Wireless products that will work with the Elk (GE compatible)

HAI only supports 2 wireless manufacturers. HAI has there on wireless interface which works with the HAI wireless detectors. HAI also has a wireless receiver that is compatible with GE, Caddx and ITI wireless.

GE, Caddx and ITI are all the same devices, just a different part # when you order them.