Omni Pro UPB Status Tracking

I am planning my Omni Pro II install and have a question regarding UPB status tracking.

I was wondering how well the Omni Pro II tracks UPB status when using the UPB mode.

IIRC it does not detect when the load is switched locally.
Is this also true if the local switch transmits?
i.e I have Unit 10 "Kitchen" and link 10 "Kitchen".
When I turn the lights on from the rocker it is configured to transmit "Link 10 On"

Will the Omni Pro II track this status?

If not and I am forced to track status by issuing UPB status messages I have two concerns.
I have around 60 units, if I do something like this (pseudo code):

When Every 5 Seconds
Check Status Unit 1
Check Status Unit 2
...
Check Status Unit 60

Will that take too much processing overhead with the Omni?
Also will that put too many messages on the UPB bus, and therefore block any other messages from being received?
Do I even need to track the status of every unit?

I can't test this yet. So was wondering if you smart folks had some insight.
Thanks

Previously, with my HomeVision system, I did not have decent status tracking using links. From all that I read, the OPII will be the same way. I just installed an OPII and because of my desire to have full status tracking, I decided to just bite the bullet and setup all my PCS UPB switches conforming to the HLC way of doing things. All I can say is WOW. The tracking is very reliable and I did not have to write any code to do it. I'm using the H@ME app on my iPhone and SnapLink from my office and home laptop and the status display is always accurate.

What is the driving factor that you are using UPB links instead of the HLC mode?

My UPB system has been in for sometime. I'm using SA switches and it was configured with Upstart.
It works well stand alone. It shouldn't need any overhead from the Omni to keep working well.
Scenes/links are all configured at the UPB level.
I have a very good location, no noise and good signal on both branches.


I was thinking I really only need the Omni to know the status of things if I want to use them as conditionals.
I can check those one at a time as I need to.

If I am sending links, I don't care what the status is, I want it to send the link and take action.
Maybe find out status afterwards to verify it got sent correctly.

Also, I may want to send a link from a switch and have the Omni watch for it and take some action.
But again, I don't think it's critical if the Omni knows the status before hand.

Just wondering how it will affect me or if I am overlooking something critical that I need to worry about.

Your description in the first paragraph exactly matches where my system was. I installed UPB in late 2003 and built it up over time until now. It runs 100% stand-alone without any need for the OPII to do anything.

However, since getting the OPII, as stated, I took the opportunity to change to the HLC way of doing things. What this entailed was doing a couple of spreadsheets to list out all my devices (65 of them) into the specific rooms and to move my links into the specific numbering that HLC required. Thankfully, I could just sit at the kitchen table with my laptop and Upstart and reconfigure the whole house. Yes, it was several hours and a bit of a chore, but the end result was that everthing still worked as before, but now it conforms to HLC and I get 100% full status tracking without having to do any custom code.

HLC mode on non-HAI devices isn't anything more than just numbering them and assigning links in the pre-allocated format that HAI uses. Check out this document (and it's linked documents) http://kb.homeauto.com/default.asp?id=637 . There's lot's of information there on how to allocate your rooms/devices and links. The HAI allocation model was very different from what I was doing, but now that I have changed over, it works great and I really like all the status tracking (both by room and device).

Thanks for the link. I was under the impression you couldn't use HLC mode with non HAI UPB devices.
I will take a hard look at it.

This weekend I'll still be pulling wires...

Desert_AIP said:

Thanks for the link. I was under the impression you couldn't use HLC mode with non HAI UPB devices.
I will take a hard look at it.

This weekend I'll still be pulling wires...

Click to expand...

That's why I gave you the link. I too was under the impression from my initial research that I needed HAI modules to do HLC mode. That's not true at all and you can use any UPB devices in HCL "mode" if you manually setup the links in Upstart. Some of the non-HAI modules can actually be programmed from the OPII panel via the HLC programming mode, but I personally have not tried that.

JonW said:

Desert_AIP said:

Thanks for the link. I was under the impression you couldn't use HLC mode with non HAI UPB devices.
I will take a hard look at it.

This weekend I'll still be pulling wires...

Click to expand...

That's why I gave you the link. I too was under the impression from my initial research that I needed HAI modules to do HLC mode. That's not true at all and you can use any UPB devices in HCL "mode" if you manually setup the links in Upstart. Some of the non-HAI modules can actually be programmed from the OPII panel via the HLC programming mode, but I personally have not tried that.

Click to expand...

Jon - Thanks for the link. I have been trying to get teh auto tracking working from the OPII, but just can't seem to get it right. I have each of my dimmers setup as per the Dimmer Switch Matrix, but if I manually turn off/on that switch the OPII doesn't update the status. Any thoughts or ideas?

Here's a couple of things to check. From within UPSTART, open one of your switches and go to the "Rocker Switch" tab. Make sure it is checked at the bottom for "Report light level after rocker switch is pressed". Also, on the "Transmit Components" tab, check if the single-tap action is set to "Status".

Also, if you want, I'd be happy to look at your UPSTART file to see if everything is in order.

In my experience, with HAI modules configured by the controller, tracking works flawlessly. I have two Web Mountain SW-7s, and what I observe is: if you configure them properly, they will track either for manual operation at the device itself, or UPB commands sent from the controller. The only time they don't report status properly is when they are effected by a UPB link. What I've done for that is put a few rules in the programming that request status from those devices anytime the controller sees one of the links that those devices respond to. That works about 95% of the time. (It seems like it ought to work all the time; I haven't yet figured out why it doesn't.)

JonW said:

Here's a couple of things to check. From within UPSTART, open one of your switches and go to the "Rocker Switch" tab. Make sure it is checked at the bottom for "Report light level after rocker switch is pressed". Also, on the "Transmit Components" tab, check if the single-tap action is set to "Status".

Also, if you want, I'd be happy to look at your UPSTART file to see if everything is in order.

Click to expand...

Jon -

The "Report Light Level" fixed it! At least for the SAI US1-40's. The SAI US2-40, still doesn't work. I can't get it to control the load independent of the link that get's fired when the toggle is switched. The US2-40 is configured with a Toggle switch on top, with 4 push buttons on the bottom. If I follow the matrix, I have to set the top/bottom toggles to 242/241, respectfully. If I do that, I loose control of the load. I can send you the upstart file if you want, just let me know where to send it.

Thanks for your help!

- Zaq

I haven't used one of those, but I believe the 242/241 are just defaults and you should set them to the actual links that should be assigned per the HLC control matrix.

There is also one other thing that might not apply to anyone, but I thought I would mention it.

In my house at least, I have VERY poor communication between 120V phases. So the solution for that is either a "bridge" or a reapeater. A bridge is a passive device that "bridges" the two phases, a repeater is an active device that repeats a signal from one phase to the other.

UPB devices come in both Gen I varieties (many Simply Automated, and some older switches) and Gen II varieties (Web Mountain, PCS, HAI).

In my house I have mainly Simply Automated and I use a bridge in my breaker box. (Actually I use 3 bridges in parallel because my signal was so bad. ) Recently I purchased a repeater because I though that was a better solution than a bridge. Anyway, to make a long story short, the repeater does not support status messages when using Gen I switches. It does for Gen II. My solution was to use both the bridges AND the repeater. Maybe overkill, but now status and signal are great everywhere.

So if you are in the rare case of Gen I switches and a repeater, keep in mind status may not work, at least without a bridge as well.

Zaq said:

JonW said:

Here's a couple of things to check. From within UPSTART, open one of your switches and go to the "Rocker Switch" tab. Make sure it is checked at the bottom for "Report light level after rocker switch is pressed". Also, on the "Transmit Components" tab, check if the single-tap action is set to "Status".

Also, if you want, I'd be happy to look at your UPSTART file to see if everything is in order.

Click to expand...

Jon -

The "Report Light Level" fixed it! At least for the SAI US1-40's. The SAI US2-40, still doesn't work. I can't get it to control the load independent of the link that get's fired when the toggle is switched. The US2-40 is configured with a Toggle switch on top, with 4 push buttons on the bottom. If I follow the matrix, I have to set the top/bottom toggles to 242/241, respectfully. If I do that, I loose control of the load. I can send you the upstart file if you want, just let me know where to send it.

Thanks for your help!

- Zaq

Click to expand...

Actually you hit upon a problem with using the US2-40's. You can only generate ONE link per paddle position, and the US2-40 doesn't control itself so the link generated has to be set up to control the switch or you get no local control. You need to set a receive link for this switch so it can turn-on itself.

JonW,

Just starting to play with UPB/Upstart/HAI OPII.

I am interested in the HLC configuration you mention and printed out info posted on the HAI site regarding said methodology.

I currently have in place (connected to OPII) X10, Z-Wave and UPB. Starting to migrate my X-10 / Insteon switches over to UPB. I am also playing with different mfg's switches (right now just SA and PCS).

I have at this time only set up a few switches and still trying to figure the logic numbering links, etc relating to HAI documentation.

IE:

Starting in room 5 - units 34-40 - links 25-30 -

Using Upstart and configuring unit 34 of UPB room 1(5) not sure how to configure links of first switch?

pete_c said:

JonW,

Just starting to play with UPB/Upstart/HAI OPII.

I am interested in the HLC configuration you mention and printed out info posted on the HAI site regarding said methodology.

I currently have in place (connected to OPII) X10, Z-Wave and UPB. Starting to migrate my X-10 / Insteon switches over to UPB. I am also playing with different mfg's switches (right now just SA and PCS).

I have at this time only set up a few switches and still trying to figure the logic numbering links, etc relating to HAI documentation.

IE:

Starting in room 5 - units 34-40 - links 25-30 -

Using Upstart and configuring unit 34 of UPB room 1(5) not sure how to configure links of first switch?

Click to expand...

In my example below, room 5 is my "Bonus Room".
I created and named Links 25 - 30 as follows:
25 - Bonus Room, On (100%)
26 - Bonus Room, Off (0%)
27 - Bonus Room, Scene A (80%)
28 - Bonus Room, Scene B (60%)
29 - Bonus Room, Scene C (40%)
30 - Bonus Room, Scene D (20%)

Note that you should keep the first two links programmed to use the same levels (100% & 0%), but you can freely change the levels for Scenes A,B,C&D.

For device 34, go to the receive components tab of the switch. Add the 6 links in consecutive order (as above). Repeat this for the remaining switches in the room (35 - 40). If you are using a room keypad as unit 33, you would set these links as the transmit links