Control 4?

What is C4? How does it work? Does it work? I am going to do 8 (possibly more) audio zones, and 10-12 lighting/dimming ckts. There is going to be an Elk M1. All else is undecided at this point. I was planning to use UPB switches but heard about the C4 system but I can't find much info on there site. I figured this is the best to place get the true story. Thanks, CDC

Control4 is a hardware based automation system. It is generally installed by integrators only (although I am sure you could DIY a system if you put enough effort into it). On a general level, it is similar to Crestron. Although I don't really know a lot of specifics about Control4, I believe that they offer a lot of hardware pieces, like an audio module, a lighting system, etc, etc, etc.

I use CQC which is a software based automation system. It doesn't have any hardware modules. This can be good or bad depending on your perspective. There are many audio device, lighting systems, etc that will work with CQC, but sometimes the wide range of systems that work with it can be overwhelming.

sic0048 said:

Control4 is a hardware based automation system. It is generally installed by integrators only (although I am sure you could DIY a system if you put enough effort into it). On a general level, it is similar to Crestron. Although I don't really know a lot of specifics about Control4, I believe that they offer a lot of hardware pieces, like an audio module, a lighting system, etc, etc, etc.

I use CQC which is a software based automation system. It doesn't have any hardware modules. This can be good or bad depending on your perspective. There are many audio device, lighting systems, etc that will work with CQC, but sometimes the wide range of systems that work with it can be overwhelming.

Click to expand...

Control4 is an affordable hardware based family of automation products. They integrate with a (growing) number of other hardware vendors but also have their own bits of gear. Lighting, HVAC, media distribution, etc. They are the also the current leader in the Zigbee space. In the past, the gear was incredibly unreliable but, C4 has made great strides there and is now offering product that appears to work as advertised. They are also soon to release a Flash development module that will, in theory, allow people to finally be able to truly customize the system (C4 and HAI are on similar paths in this respect. Traditionally, they have both offered "locked" down interfaces). The past, I think, 6 months has seen the company doing a lot right and they are gobbling up market share like crazy.

It is possible, though rare, to DIY a C4 system. (see www.c4central.com) sic's right, it is a generally "pro" installed system. I put the quotes around the word pro there for a reason which leads me into the con's...

The primary issue that I take with them (and this reflects my opinion rather than that of the company I represent) is a perceived lack of integrity. The ownership comes from an HA background with a company called Phast that ran their business into the ground and took a lot of integrators with them. They literally bankrupted good, hardworking folks while cashing out and "running" with the money they could pull. There are a lot of dealers who still have a very sour taste left in their mouth from that debacle. In addition to this, the company's marketing arm will say anything to make a sale. By anything, I mean that they will publish complete and utter falsehoods. My favorite is that they claimed in 2008 to have been the home automation system chosen for the first LEED Platinum rated project in the US. I know that it is either a complete lie or miserably ignorant (neither is a good proposition) as I personally commissioned a full home automation system for the THIRD Platinum rated project back in 2006. I called them on it and they never rescinded. They allow misinformation to remain "out there" in order to bamboozle people. There are a number of other examples of delusions of grandeur but, they're easy enough to find if you dig. Lastly and, going back to my earlier "pro" comment, they are gathering a flock of dealers that is huge. In particular, they are gaining traction with those who are brand new to the home automation space and have dollar signs firmly affixed to their eyes. While anecdotal, I would suggest that a large portion of their dealer base has very, very little experience in home automation and yet will present themselves as experts (akin to getting electronics advice from the zit covered 16 year old kid at Radio Shack). Don't even get me started on their presence in big box stores and their "highly" (as in two week classroom course) trained install crews.

To sum up, Control4 is definitely a leader in home automation but, while they have gotten much better in the recent past, I would state that it is based on price point rather than reliability, ability, integrity or otherwise. I have recently begun to think of them as the Dustbuster of automation. Not very powerful but capable of "picking up" a large percent of simple jobs...

To simplify what Anthony Z said: I have a large Phast system and there's no way in hell I would ever consider a Control 4 system when I go to replace it in the near future.

My $0.02...

Personal experience with one of their installers...my builder wanted me to talk to their group, as they were the ones putting in my LV stuff (provided "free" with the build). I spoke and found that they did not know as much as they made the claim. I'm sure Control 4 does more...but basically, they were trying to sell me a $2000 system that allowed me to flip a button to make my TV appear...want lights, that's more, want other sensors...wait there wasn't anything like that...(at least quoted to me, nor did they seem to know about anything else).

OK...well, I like to DIY and play...so for that cost, I have put together HS, server, sensors, and UPB...and I'm STILL under their quote...

I did wish there was a PRO installer in the area, as there are a few things I would have like to have paid to have installed. Most of my sensors are taking linger to put in as I need to fish wires...I wasn't sure HOW / Where I wanted them, so I didn't pull lines for most sensors when the walls were just frames...oh well...

--Dan

Anthony

The people who started Control4 did own Phast but you neglect to state that they actually sold the company to AMX who ended up closing up and screwing the dealers. You cant hold the previous owners of a company liable for something the new purchasers did.... Control4 did let on a few too many dealers but they cut off 100s and made some of them go back to training and properly learn the systems. There are stupid dealers for every product out there and you cant really single out one company and use it as a negative example..

I have done some monster control4 systems and their system uptimes are nearing almost a year. The only reason they arent longer is software updates that provide new features etc. Control4 has made a big imrpovement and has been for the past years with software and hardware getting better and better with each release.

Control4 has an extremely powerful product and i can do just about anything in a home that any other company can do. ie 32 zones of audio 16 zones of video, 200 lighting loads etc etc.. all works effortlessly

Anthony,

Also what you don't realize is that the founders that started Control4 did not run Phast into the ground. The truth is, unfortunately they learned the hard way what the difference is between 49% and 51% ownership. The investors of Phast not the founder is what drove Phast into the ground.

I think your comment about the installers experience differs very little than any other brand. Control4 dealers have to buy in, and be trained by Control4 whereas other brands installed "professionally" require no training at all, although they really should. I can buy and install HAI, Elk, Russound, Nuvo, and many many other brands without any formal training, and just a business license.

Control4 IMO is a great product and affordable. It is not the end all, and it is not the right product for every case.

However the biggest obstacle for a Control4 system which many do not realize is not the programming knowledge but the networking knowledge. This will become the biggest tech support for dealers with all IP based system in the future. A $50 router is not acceptable anymore.

Control4 is a great product and does well paired with an security system as Elk. I would suggest those considering them, talk to a premier dealer in your area, that way you know they have done good installs. Gold dealer have been installing for a year and have done a specific volume, Platinum dealers like us have been installing Control4 for 2+ years and twice the annual volume as Gold Dealers.

I haven't used Control4 in my home, but I was impressed with the design of their system. You don't need expensive touch panels as their system displays on your tv screen and you use a hand-held zigbee remote. The GUI looked limited, but wasn't that bad for the price. Since the GUI and hardware appear to be standard, you'd probably save a lot of money on installation over a custom AMX (or equivalent) system.

If you want a custom system that's cheaper and plan to DIY, look into this free software based solution that can do anything you want (provided you know vbscript, c++ or .net):
http://www.cocoontech.com/wiki/premise

This is what I use and it's been very stable for me.