Elk M1G - Using Lighting For Additional Variable Storage?

I may have a need for quite a few variables in the Elk for things like sprinkler control, etc. and was wondering about the possibility of using the Lighting in an Elk M1 for additional variable storage (if not using X10 with the Elk). Since the Elk has a some what limited supply of variables and the lighting can be named as you wish it would seem that this might be a rather large source source of additional variable storage in the M1G.

I was wondering what the pros and cons would be of trying something like this and if there would be a danger of support for the current style of lighting in the Elk being dropped if I were to adopt such a plan.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Brian

Try it!

If it works, great. I doubt the current style of lighting support is just going to "dropped." I would suspect that any features or major changes will have sufficient notice.

signal15 said:

Try it!

If it works, great. I doubt the current style of lighting support is just going to "dropped." I would suspect that any features or major changes will have sufficient notice.

Click to expand...

What sort of variables are you thinking of using these for? Don't they pretty much give you on/off, which you can get from outputs?

I found the elk is pretty limited when it comes to sprinklers. No ability to get counters back after a reset of the elk, inability to do any math on custom settings (and the limited custom fields), no ability to do something like "every 4th day" - you can within a month, but when there are 31 days in the month, you don't water for 7 days on a month changover.

comet said:

signal15 said:

Try it!

If it works, great. I doubt the current style of lighting support is just going to "dropped." I would suspect that any features or major changes will have sufficient notice.

Click to expand...

What sort of variables are you thinking of using these for? Don't they pretty much give you on/off, which you can get from outputs?

I found the elk is pretty limited when it comes to sprinklers. No ability to get counters back after a reset of the elk, inability to do any math on custom settings (and the limited custom fields), no ability to do something like "every 4th day" - you can within a month, but when there are 31 days in the month, you don't water for 7 days on a month changover.

Click to expand...

Mostly boolean type logic, on/off.

I have quite a few real world outputs so I do not want to waste too many of them.

Is anyone doing this now?

Thanks!
Brian

I "sort of" use PLC for storage. I am using PLC signaling with the cheap multi-button "mini controllers" as bedside and tabletop "command units." It works great both for immediate commands and for setting "bits" or "flags" for later functions. In this sense, I am relying on the PLC setting in the M1 some hours or days after making the setting.

In my view, what you want to do is the same as using unused outputs, which Elk endorses. I just can't see any issues, and especially if you don't have an attached lighting controller, there is no real chance of surprise real-world interference. (As it happens, I luckily have a relatively clean noise-free power line environment with good signal transmission from one end of the house to the other.)

I also use the PLC voice slots for canned messages. I have found these to be "tighter" than when the same message is sent as discrete words over the ASCII protocol.

PS to comet -- "resetting the Elk" ought to be rare. Mine has been running continuously for a long time (December was the last power-down, for wiring) and I expect considerably more than that, routinely.

Sounds like you may be better off with a custom solution. Have you looked into using an embedded board with RS232 to handle your math and variables? Even a simple setup should be sufficient. You can pass it basic commands via serial text strings. Of course you would need some basic programming/electronics knowledge, but it would free you from the limitations of the elk. Alternatively there is always a PC based system, if you are OK with the issues associated. You can grab something as simple as a BASIC stamp and some output relays from almost anywhere or do a google search for microcontroller kits and you will find a bunch of easy to use options.

icellama21 said:

Have you looked into using an embedded board with RS232 to handle your math and variables. . .

Click to expand...

Offloading the functions you need is a good idea. Outboard processing can do your calculations and set the M1's custom settings and outputs on a daily or hourly basis, which in turn will direct the M1 to execute your control functions. You can even get the time of day, day of week, and daylight time state from the M1 over the link. I am doing this with a LAN-connected Barionet.

For critical security and safety functions, there can be a question of "is the outboard unit connected and running and performing as expected?" For this I use an M1 output as a keep-alive indicator. The Barionet every five minutes turns an output ON FOR 5 MIN 10 SECS, RESTART TIMER IF ALREADY RUNNING. If the M1 sees this output go OFF, it raises a trouble condition and sends me an alert.

Lagerhead, would you mind starting a new thread with a few screenshots of the Barionet programming interface, so we can see what it can do? I personally want to move away from the Elk M1 for most of my automation (too restricted, ElkRP has been nothing but trouble for me, etc.), and while I do have an Ocelot connected to the M1, I want something which has a LAN interface, but is at least as powerful as the Ocelot. Thanks!

Dan (electron) said:

Lagerhead, would you mind starting a new thread with a few screenshots of the Barionet programming interface. . .

Click to expand...

I would be happy to do this, give me some time to get organized. You should know, however, that the Barionet is simultaneously powerful and primitive. Its language is a modified second-generation BASIC and the "programming interface" is your favorite text editor. It would not be the right solution for low-level-coding-challenged individuals. But if you are adventuresome and patient, you can make it do nice tricks.

In which forum does the thread belong?

Dave

The Home Automation forum will do, thanks!

icellama21 said:

Sounds like you may be better off with a custom solution. Have you looked into using an embedded board with RS232 to handle your math and variables? Even a simple setup should be sufficient. You can pass it basic commands via serial text strings. Of course you would need some basic programming/electronics knowledge, but it would free you from the limitations of the elk. Alternatively there is always a PC based system, if you are OK with the issues associated. You can grab something as simple as a BASIC stamp and some output relays from almost anywhere or do a google search for microcontroller kits and you will find a bunch of easy to use options.

Click to expand...

I use HomeSeer and an Elk M1G along with Ultrajone's plugin (there are other options but Ultrajones supports his very well) which allows HomeSeer and the Elk to talk. I can do most anything I want from HomeSeer and can take advantage of the Elk's inputs and outputs. However I like to have some of my more critical code (lighting, etc.) in the Elk because it is rock solid and the code will continue to function should HomeSeer, HomeSeer Touch, or the PC itself go down. I have found HomeSeer itself to be pretty reliable, but it is after all running on a Windows PC.

I have some things I want to do that can eaisly be done in HomeSeer, but I would prefer to do in the Elk. I may make use of quite a few variables which is what brought on this idea. I have invested in several Elk I/O expanders already, so I would rather not start over. I chose the Elk because it can eaisly do a security and fire system, with the I/O and automation capabilities as an added bonus.

Brian