1/2, 1/4 gang brackets, wall plates

Why is the minimum wall plate size 1-gang?

For LV, I would think 1/2 or 1/4 gang boxes/brackets, and plates, would be more inconspicuous.

Is there a minimum size set forth by the NEC? Old phone jackets were smaller.

I'm thinking about this because I'm planning flood sensors.

If someone knows of a product that's offered, please share.

Anyone have a copy of the NEC, and a few minutes to spare?

Try this - http://www.scribd.com/doc/10878744/NEC-200...al-Code-NFPA-70

Article 314 ish might help... It's a BIG book so be patient and know that there will not necessarily be a direct answer to whatever you are wanting to know.

I'm going to bet it's not so much a matter of the code as it is a matter of a company being able to make a profit making odd sized boxes and all kinds of plates in various and sundry colors. As it stands now standard plates can be made functional for low voltage without them having to make additional plates. This is especially true of those that use the decora style, since any type of decora plate will fit on it.

A smaller size would be perfect for speaker wall plates, or for any other purpose that requires only a single connector. Single-double-triple gangs were designed for high voltage, ages ago. There are so many other reasons to have plates currently, for LV applications, that the minimum single gang size is ridiculous.

However, I bet it's still a code issue.

FWIW, I tossed the idea to Arlington Industries, a wall plate manufacturer.


Single gang wall plate is too large for many low voltage applications.

Why not a 'Half Gang' wall plate, e.g. could accomodate a LV keystone insert (RCA, banana plugs, LAN, etc.).

Less conspicuous, more 'designer' friendly. Ideal for old work LV ring applications, for the discriminating installer, and DIY'er.

I could only find a single instance of this type of product on the internet, from Australia. Was a DIY.

'Quarter gang' could also be a consideration.

Many people would pay a premium for this specific product, IMO. The installer in a rush would still use the standard single gang, for the ease of pulling wires, but the discerning CI would choose this 'Half Gang' system.

Should be the new LV installation standard, presented by AI.

I think that its partly 'just because' thats what the electricians are using. Having a half gang box for your phone next to the single gang box for high voltage would look odd. Also i think that region specific variables would make it even more difficult to play along. In Chicago everything high voltage is in metal boxes and metal conduit. No plastic boxes available at Home Depot or electrical supply houses. I havent been to home depot in a while but even the low voltage trim rings are metal. In some suburbs around chicago you cant use low voltage trim rings. You have to use metal boxes with stress relief grommets. It will be interesting to see what Arlington has to say.

Also.. it would suck to have to put your hand in a half gang box to pull a wire out that the sheetrocker buried :rofl:

I'm sure Arlington will send me a standard form email reply, if any, saying thanks and we'll look into it.

I've thought about this one a lot - 1/2 gang. Would look funny next to a 1-gang, agreed. And most people have 1-gang outlet plates every 8 feet or so, per code.

I use keystone inserts for the several scattered low-voltage plates I've installed/replaced, and just 1 keystone in a single gang looks pretty stupid There is probably an ideal size wall plate that would look OK, if near a single gang.

The ideal location for a 'half gang' plate would be for surround back speakers, on wall. Or for the new standard 'upper fronts', on wall. Or for cameras, mounted on-wall near the ceiling, where the mount didn't accomodate the wiring. Or an on-wall phone jack, located above the standard wall-switch/VC height. Admittedly, most devices could hide the wiring themselves, but for new construction, it would fit the bill.

Thanks for the input, 39 Cent Stamp. I really like that Dark Knight project - the cloudy night wallpaper background nails it.

Neurorad said:

I'm sure Arlington will send me a standard form email reply, if any, saying thanks and we'll look into it.

I've thought about this one a lot - 1/2 gang. Would look funny next to a 1-gang, agreed. And most people have 1-gang outlet plates every 8 feet or so, per code.

I use keystone inserts for the several scattered low-voltage plates I've installed/replaced, and just 1 keystone in a single gang looks pretty stupid There is probably an ideal size wall plate that would look OK, if near a single gang.

The ideal location for a 'half gang' plate would be for surround back speakers, on wall. Or for the new standard 'upper fronts', on wall. Or for cameras, mounted on-wall near the ceiling, where the mount didn't accomodate the wiring. Or an on-wall phone jack, located above the standard wall-switch/VC height. Admittedly, most devices could hide the wiring themselves, but for new construction, it would fit the bill.

Thanks for the input, 39 Cent Stamp. I really like that Dark Knight project - the cloudy night wallpaper background nails it.

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I was thinking about the 1/2 gang plates last night and thought what if there was a 1" round insert that friction fits into a drilled hole. Sort of like how a grommet is pushed into a desk or cabinet. This could be put in baseboards or counter tops and provide a very discrete was to distribute phone & Lan. This is a pic of a door contact. Imagine if there were an RJ45 jack at the end.

http://www.diycontrols.com/images/951WG-WH...c%20Contact.jpg

Now you're talking!

If you have the force, the motivation, the power, the drive - sell it to Arlington.

Would be perfect for my water sensors.

Speaking of water sensors, how about one that mounts flush to the baseboard and wall, (inserted into a drilled hole,) that comes with a tiny 'cage' surrounding it, minimizing the 'mop trigger effect'. You wouldn't even have to remove a section of the quarter round - just drill through it. Maybe GRI wants to hear about this...

'Half gang', smallish speaker wall plate now available through Amazon Prime.
 

 
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1169150/speaker-wire-through-drywall-no-wall-plate/30#post_24744539
 
http://www.amazon.com/Amico-Theater-Binding-Banana-Plate/dp/B008IGHWNG/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1400707181&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=amico+home+theater+dual+bindingpost+banana

It's not a code issue. The only item that becomes a code issue is when supporting devices....mainly fire alarm, but there is no mandate for there to be an enclosed box and not a ring OR the actual size required. The only reason why there's a "gang" size is to facilitate box fill....which does not come into play for LV. What does come into play with the majority of LV (communications and control) is bend radius of the cable to maintain the integrity of the cable, and honestly, for many applications, a gang box is not big or deep enough and that's when you see 4" square with mullberry's installed.
 
There was a lot of variable sizes and plates on the market in the 50's and 60's. Hell, even Leviton has some oddball sizes and boxes on the market that are designed for under valance or under cabinet or poke through on a desk, I've got a box full of them downstairs. They still make small-ish phone jacks that are round and smaller than a gang size.

Most of the time you're going to see trade size being used as there may be the need for plates, fittings, raceways, etc. It's going to be a tough sell to get a product at say, 1/2 gang to be used for XX or YY....what happens on a Friday before a holiday when you need something and the supply house, the big box, or whatever is out of the, say, "adamo" style boxes and covers, but has standard units or what is already on the truck.
 
There are at least a dozen manufacturers that make splice enclosures, boxes, terminals, etc that are miniscule compared to a gang box....GRI is one. The hardest part is there is no standardization between the manufacturers on footprint and what is actually supported....there's no need to nor is there a code or standard that requires such.
 
I don't see there being a draw, think about how many people would buy vs. trade. The retrofit market is essentially nil for a house wired to another standard.

A RJ45 in a 3/4 or 1" hole would be a lesson in futility. From dealing with hundreds, if not thousands of alarm contacts and plugs from 1/4"-1" nominal...it's a fragile thing to put that sort of device into sheetrock and then have a pair of screws supporing it firmly, it can't be friction fit otherwise every plug or jack that binds up is going to rip the plug out of the wall. The only item I've seen installed in a 1/2" hole with a plate and plug is the amp pull apart connectors for security screens.
 
I'm not saying it can't be done or it can't be proposed, but the reality of the marketplace and demand isn't there for the amounts that would need to make it profitable. Who remembers the outlets and boxes (I want to say Cheetah?) that were designed for a faster install of jacks, plugs, plates etc. into boxes....and only those compatible boxes.

It has an EU look to it.  I am guessing then there are probably similarly sized trim ring (mud ring?) for said 1/2 gang box stuff in the EU.(?)
 
Here utilized single gang box low voltage plastic mud rings for my set up for externally mounted speakers. 
 
I was concerned about how they looked until I mounted the speaker and didn't see them anymore.   Smaller though would have been nicer.
 
(3 external front, 2 in ceiling, 2 external rear and 1 external sub woofer).
 
Yup; here have had that "water" issue once in a laundry room.  Didn't have any sensors; but probably wouldn't have fixed what got damaged anyways.
 
The floor was cement with tile; but no drainage.  The laundry room sink and surround custom wood frame and stuff did get damaged.
 
I also redid my other laundry room on the main floor of the house using that waterproofing underlayment and literally sealing the floor and wall molding; then adding new tile.  It was a PITA.  Water for washing machine comes out of the wall (along with the drain).  Never had a problem to date though. (10 years)
 
Here though have seen a "few" of the neighbors flood their second floor / main floor bathrooms and damage their main floor ceilings / finished basement ceilings major extensive like.  One neighbor fixed their issue by purchasing a $1000 toilet.  Not really sure though that I would like the look of knobby molding.

Still uses full gang boxes, but the wall plates are half the size.
 
http://www.kyleswitchplates.com/narrow-switch-plates/

ThisGuy said:

Still uses full gang boxes, but the wall plates are half the size.
 
http://www.kyleswitchplates.com/narrow-switch-plates/

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Would be borderline legal, if legal. The distance from the non-combustible surface would have inspectors questioning it. The gaps between the cover and the box are also going to raise eyes.
 
Most sheetrockers and carpenters can't get a good enough cut on a normal 2X4" box, and smaller or "exact" is going to be insane to even ask for.
 
These would be called "mullion" plates for installation of devices in prefab or construction doors, aluminum extrusions or partitions. special code section.