Trouble wiring my doorbell with a relay

Quixote_1

Active Member
Hi guys,
I'm pulling my hair out with this one, so I just thought I'd check if there are any electronics gurus here that could break this down for me.

I wired a 12vdc relay into my doorbell circuit and attached a DS10a to the correct terminals so that when current run through the relay the terminals close. Tested using an AC adapter (to DC), everything works fine and I can just momentarily touch the power to the relay to get the signal from the DS10a. However, once attached to the doorbell, I only get a signal sporadically. I've also tried a 6 - 9vdc relay.

I had determined that the voltage was appropriate beforehand, but I'm starting to doubt my original convictions. I'm home alone so I can't activate the doorbell and hold a voltmeter to it at the same time. Is there something that I'm missing in the circuit that I could salvage from something else, or am I wasting my time? I don't want to buy anything else to do this since I've already wasted my money on an X10 powerflash interface and no longer plan on using it (I'm upgrading to Insteon slowly but surely).
 
I'm not sure of all the reasons, but I think it may be difficult to get a simple relay to work reliably. I know you said you didn't want to buy anything else, but Elk makes the perfect solution for this and I use them often without issue:
http://www.elkproducts.com/products/elk-930.htm

Maybe if you post in the For Sale/Wanted to Buy area you can find someone who purchased the Elk 930 and has an unused doorbell module (the module comes with two)?

Cheers,
Paul
 
I dont see why this could not be done with a dpst or dpdt 12v dc relay.
(or 2 sp relays)

For 2 Bosch relays:

30 - 1 wire of pushbutton wires to the bell
87 - 1 wire to bell
85 - to pushbutton
86 - to 12v dc
-12v - to pushbutton

Relay 2:

30 and 87a to ds-10a

85, 86 and - same as relay 1
 
Thanks to everyone for all of your help.
I think that Brett may be correct, unfortunately. I'm going to have to wait until I have a friend over and test the voltage once again. My relay buzzes when I press the button, so I'm guessing that's because it's not meant to work with alternating current which is what it must be being fed with.

I'm going to look into an AC relay to see if I can get one for cheap. The Elk ones are a little pricey for me for the time being and I think I may be able to pull this off for around 5 bucks.

I'll post back when I get back to this. Thanks again.


-D
 
Thanks to everyone for all of your help.
I think that Brett may be correct, unfortunately. I'm going to have to wait until I have a friend over and test the voltage once again. My relay buzzes when I press the button, so I'm guessing that's because it's not meant to work with alternating current which is what it must be being fed with.

I'm going to look into an AC relay to see if I can get one for cheap. The Elk ones are a little pricey for me for the time being and I think I may be able to pull this off for around 5 bucks.

I'll post back when I get back to this. Thanks again.


-D

Just an FYI, if it is a lighted doorbell a simple relay won't work because some current needs to go through for the light. That's why you need to use the Elk doorbell detector, or a non-lighted doorbell. I just skipped all that and wired a non-lighted doorbell right to the elk input and got rid of the transformer and bell. Then I recorded a custom sound into the elk and let it be my doorbell. Now I can change the sound, and it plays everywhere I have an elk speaker and as an extra small benefit works when the power is out thanks to the Elk's battery backup.
 
Thanks to everyone for all of your help.
I think that Brett may be correct, unfortunately. I'm going to have to wait until I have a friend over and test the voltage once again. My relay buzzes when I press the button, so I'm guessing that's because it's not meant to work with alternating current which is what it must be being fed with.

I'm going to look into an AC relay to see if I can get one for cheap. The Elk ones are a little pricey for me for the time being and I think I may be able to pull this off for around 5 bucks.

I'll post back when I get back to this. Thanks again.


-D

Just an FYI, if it is a lighted doorbell a simple relay won't work because some current needs to go through for the light. That's why you need to use the Elk doorbell detector, or a non-lighted doorbell. I just skipped all that and wired a non-lighted doorbell right to the elk input and got rid of the transformer and bell. Then I recorded a custom sound into the elk and let it be my doorbell. Now I can change the sound, and it plays everywhere I have an elk speaker and as an extra small benefit works when the power is out thanks to the Elk's battery backup.


My doorbell is not lit, but now you have me thinking... maybe I should just rewire the thing and get a different chime that works with DC, just so that it'll work if there is a power outtage. I'm putting in a deep cycle marine battery and charger in the closet above the front door for use with other essential systems (don't worry -- I'll have adequate ventilation). Once I have the DS10a wired in, I'll be able to receive the signal on my computer and play any sound I'd like as well in any of the zones that I have/will be setting up.
Thanks.
 
If you change your mind, I'm one of those people who has an extra doorbell sensor from the Elk - for $15 paypal I could drop it in a padded envelope USPS...

Otherwise, since it's not lighted, you could completely eliminate the 12VAC power supply and wire it as a NO pushbutton basically, running 12VDC power into the little $5 DC 12V relay.

If it were me in your situation, I'd probably grab a cheap, low amp 12VDC wall wart... wire the + side to the relay, then send the - side down the doorbell switch wire to the button, and the other wire to the ground pin on the relay. If you still want to keep the existing 12VAC door chime, you could use a second SPST relay or just a single DPST relay so that one pole trips the DS10a, and the second pole connects the 12VAC transformer to the chime. It's a little less conventional, but should work. You need DC to trip the relay, but it doesn't care if it's connecting AC on the other end.

As far as the battery issue - not sure the best way, but one I've done in the past is use yet another relay - but a SPDT relay that gets its power from the wall wart - and when energized connects the power source to the wall wart as well. When power is lost, the relay falls to rest, which happens to be the battery - so it'd still work.
 
I just wired the ds10 directly to the switch. There's no power at all. When the ds10's status changes an event in homeseer plays a wav. file over the house speakers, snaps a picture of the front door and driveway then emails it to me, and turns on the front can lights in my theater room for 30 seconds.
 
If you want to use a DS10a for notification AND you already have an existing doorbell (i.e. the "actual" bell part) just mount the DS10a receiver near the coil of the doorbell's "dinger". When the doorbell rings the coil builds a magnetic field that will be detected via the DS10a.

I believe Rupp has a picture of this method on the HS boards.
 
If you want to use a DS10a for notification AND you already have an existing doorbell (i.e. the "actual" bell part) just mount the DS10a receiver near the coil of the doorbell's "dinger". When the doorbell rings the coil builds a magnetic field that will be detected via the DS10a.

I believe Rupp has a picture of this method on the HS boards.


You guys are all giving me some great ideas, but that one is pure genius! That one completely did not even occur to me. The backup power supply would be nice, but if I can just mount the DS10a to the doorbell somehow and get results right away, I think that's the route I'm going to go. Thanks for the suggestions guys!

I love this board.
 
Wow - that's friggin' genious... Sometimes it's the simplest solutions... I would probably extend the wires though and hide the DS10a in a closet out of site...
 
B)-->QUOTE(Todd B @ Jul 18 2008, 03:42 PM) [post="92562"][/post]
Wow - that's friggin' genious... Sometimes it's the simplest solutions...[/quote]
Yup, have to give the credit to HiTech (on the HS Boards) for coming up with this great idea. :(
 
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