Pool Equipment Automation Suggestion

I am looking into building a pool and I want to use pool controls that will work with Home Automation. It seems like many of the pool builders in my area are pushing Pentair's IntelliTouch system for HA. Currently, I do not have any specific HA system setup other than some basic automation coming from my ELK M1 Gold. Other than keeping the costs down, my options are wide open. :huh:

What are other CT users doing for pool automation?

Thanks,

Rod

It really depends on what you want to do and how much you want to spend. Usually these types of pool control systems are VERY expensive. What are you trying to automate - pump(s), light(s), spa, cleaners, salt systems, heater??? You can do you own basic control like using a relay on your pump and switch (of your technology choice) for light. Personally I have not really automated much, I have an Autopilot system that controls pump, etc and that works fine - I never really have a need to do anything other than let it runs it normal day. Light is easily controllable like any other light - can even use a motion to turn pool light on when walking on patio. Only thing I am missing is temperature display on my touch screen, but I can do that now with an input device Toymaster has come up with - I just haven't gotten that far down the list yet. Those fancy control systems are nice if you want separate controls and have alot of stuff, but many of them are independent with their own screens, etc and don't integrate well with other stuff. So depending on how fancy you want to get, alot can be done thru the Elk and HA software.

I'm going a bit for memory here, but last spring I went through the process of automating my pool. I came to the conclusion that there really is no good solution. That said, I settled for an Intellitouch. For extra $$$ they have a fairly nice web based interface. It looks nice and works fairly well in that it allows scheduling. It doenst do much when it comes to interfacing with an automation system. For that, they make a serial interface that uses a simple ASCII based command set. This will let you adjust temperature set points and control the relays and valves. Last I looked the device was about $500! I managed to find one on eBay for around $100.

Be careful of the control unit you get. I think they refer to it as a "personality" module. This piece determines how many relays and valves you can control. In my case, the smallest of the units was perfect. After installing it I discovered that it lacked the "virtual" circuits feature that only the more expensive boards had. So while I didnt need the ability to control 11 relays, I really did want the virtual circuits feature (the feature is similar to a macro). So last summer I got by with their web based interface. As this summer approaches I plan to integrate with my Elk or my Asterisk system via the serial adapter.

Oh, and if you plan to get their fancy energy saving ($$$) pump, I'd have to recommend it. It is as quiet as they claim. But it does introduce control issues. Their web interface does a fine job of controlling the pump and monitoring it's speed and power consumption, but the serial interface doesnt do much with it at all. I ended up writing a driver to decode the RS-485 data stream. It's still a work in progress but I can do every thing their $500 device can do plus control and monitor the pump.

I havent played with the intellitouch salt systems. Being lazy, I wanted a closed loop for controlling the chlorine and pH. For that I really struck out trying to find something that was automation friendly. The more expensive commercial systems were far too expensive and it was unclear what you could do to interface with other systems. The AutoPilot system I chose is really fantastic and has a two line led display with a whole lot of control and monitoring functionality. If only they had a serial interface. Soon I hope to hook up to their RS485 bus and check out the bit but I dont expect much. Assuming that doesnt work out I'd like to tap into the data stream going to the display. With $50 worth of micro controllers and a whole lot of time and I should be able to put my own interface on it. Funny thing is, it worked so well last summer my interest in watching it do it's thing is beginning to wane.

For the most part, I gave up on trying to keep the cost down and just focused on getting a system that would do what I wanted. It's turned into quite a project!

i have not tried this one out myself yet but intermatic has a zwave pool/spa controller on the market with a handheld remote http://intermatic.com/Default.asp?action=s...d=107&did=4

since the elk is z-wave compatible this may be an option for you as well as any other z-wave ha software (assuming it integrates/includes properly) - it probably uses the thermostat command class so any z-wave ha software that can handle thermostats would probably work. double check with intermatic though.

Thanks for the replies. It looks like it is going to cost aproximately $2000 more to upgrade to Pentair's Intellitouch system with HA interface. It will be much less expensive for me to go with the pool builders default system,Pentair's Easytouch system, and get an extra remote to modify along the idea of BSR's "How To Automate Your Garage Door Using Its Wireless Remote Control".

The Elk M1G will do all the pool automation you will ever need.

I use X10 which came with my pool installation. I control all the run times
(a very sophisticated timer program that is triggered by the length of day
during the year).

I control the Salt Chlorine generator, the pool filter pump, the Spa pump,
The pool heater, the Spa heater and my CO2 injection system along with the
water features.

I use a Palm Pad controller and a W800 receiver that feeds the M1G. This
works all around the yard and even across the street.

The Elk will also display the pool-spa temp with the addition of the temp
sender.

The good part this system costs less than 10% of the so called pool control
systems and is many times more flexible.

Cliff s

Cliff,

Can you provide more detail about how you are doing all of this with your M1. I can certainly see controlling relays, etc for things like the pump/spa motors, heater, and lighting, but how do you 'control' your chlorine generator? And how do you get the temp into the M1? Most of the 'pool' temp sensors are 10k devices which are very difficult to put into the M1 and you must have translation logic. Also the sophisticated timer program - what is that - is that implemented in the M1 with rules?

I've automated my pool with Jandy equipment. I use the RS-8 control unit, 2 Pentair pumps (not the Intellitouch pumps), Jandy salt generator, Jandy LX heater, 3 valves (currently may add a 4th). I'll soon add a booster pump for a cleaner.

The Jandy serial link communicates with the HA system (I'm using CQC) via RS-232 and the Jandy equipment using RS-485. The control, salt generator and heater are on the RS-485 loop. The CQC driver is solid and stable. However the serial protocol has a little to be desired.

For example, the temperature sensor use by the HA system is the sensor hardwired to the control. Inspite the fact that the salt generator and heater each have their own sensors (in fact the heater has two - one for spa temp and other for pool). Also, the protocol doesn't allow you to access the salt generator production percentage nor the salt content of the pool.

That said, the features in the protocol give me good control of the pool, spa and water features (4 deck jets and a bubbler on a seperate pump and circuit and a spill over from the spa).

Given a choice I'd use the Jandy equipment again. With luck they'll improve their protocol to include some extra features.

We have had numerous requests for the Jandy pool controller interface to the M1. Probably needs some squeaky wheels on this one!!

Spanky said:

We have had numerous requests for the Jandy pool controller interface to the M1. Probably needs some squeaky wheels on this one!!

Click to expand...

The Jandy is a good choice as many pool service men are used to it. I have seen problems with automated pools that the service men doesn't know how to operate, don't have access or just gets it messed up.

Dave

To answer a few questions:

The pumps and Salt generator are controlled by rules in the M1(about 60 rules). I added
a X10 220v switch to control the Salt Gen( I run it at 100% all the time and control
how long it operates). All the switches are X10 220v 20 amp ones.

Elk makes a wired Temp sender that plugs into the M1(Elk-M1ZTSR). It uses one of the
zones on the main board, the installation is covered in the manual.

I also added a XTB-IIR by JV engineering(you can Google XTB-IIR for the website), this device
boosts the X10 signal at least 10 times and solves all the intermittant problems that I was having.

Since my pool already had X10 switches on the water feature and pool pumps no additons
were necessary(In my area most standard pools are set up this way with a X10 controller
and switches).

The rules would apply to my pool only and every pool would be slightly different. Basically I time the
pool pump to come on as a function of sunrise and sunset, then change the times for the various
months. The Salt Generator is programmed seperately so it runs very little in the winter. The same
applies for the CO2 injection.

I also control all my outside lighting with the M1 and the PalmPad.

My Pool heater has preset digital temp. controls so all I have to do to heat the spa is turn
on the Spa pump. If I heat the pool, the M1 runs the heater on a schedule. I suppose I could
add some Jandy auto valves to switch the heater from Spa to Pool, but I find that I only
heat the Spa in the winter and Pool in the summer(when it needs it), so I have to reset the
valves only twice a year.


Cliff s

Note: A word of caution don't let any of the so called pool technicians or pool service personel mess with
any of the automated pool controllers. The will either just shut them off or blow them up.

dBeau said:

I'm going a bit for memory here, but last spring I went through the process of automating my pool. I came to the conclusion that there really is no good solution. That said, I settled for an Intellitouch. For extra $$$ they have a fairly nice web based interface. It looks nice and works fairly well in that it allows scheduling. It doenst do much when it comes to interfacing with an automation system. For that, they make a serial interface that uses a simple ASCII based command set. This will let you adjust temperature set points and control the relays and valves. Last I looked the device was about $500! I managed to find one on eBay for around $100.

Click to expand...

I also have the Intellitouch and the PC interface (ScreenLogic) with a protocol adapter which puts the Intellitouch on the home ethernet network so you can run the ScreenLogic program on a PC on the network. My pool guy thought it should have a web interface but cannot seem to figure this out. Do you mean that you can get an interface to your intellitouch in a web browser on a PC or other web browser capable device that does not have ScreenLogic installed. If so can you provide details.

A true web base interface could mean I could add a web widget on a CQC template and control the intellitouch from a CQC interface or from work over the internet.

kayemsi said:

dBeau said:

I'm going a bit for memory here, but last spring I went through the process of automating my pool. I came to the conclusion that there really is no good solution. That said, I settled for an Intellitouch. For extra $$$ they have a fairly nice web based interface. It looks nice and works fairly well in that it allows scheduling. It doenst do much when it comes to interfacing with an automation system. For that, they make a serial interface that uses a simple ASCII based command set. This will let you adjust temperature set points and control the relays and valves. Last I looked the device was about $500! I managed to find one on eBay for around $100.

Click to expand...

I also have the Intellitouch and the PC interface (ScreenLogic) with a protocol adapter which puts the Intellitouch on the home ethernet network so you can run the ScreenLogic program on a PC on the network. My pool guy thought it should have a web interface but cannot seem to figure this out. Do you mean that you can get an interface to your intellitouch in a web browser on a PC or other web browser capable device that does not have ScreenLogic installed. If so can you provide details.

A true web base interface could mean I could add a web widget on a CQC template and control the intellitouch from a CQC interface or from work over the internet.

Click to expand...

Sorry about that... the interface is not web based. It does have a mechanism in place where you can log in remotely. This still requires that the client software be installed on the computer from which you wish to connect.

I would expect CQC to be able to make good use of the serial interface. The limitations of the serial device are mostly on the monitoring side. With it, you cant look at the status of the inteliflow pump or the chlorine generator. You can, however, turn them on or off, check the water temp, and change the temp set points. When it really comes down to it, most of what most people really need is covered by the serial interface. I just find it annoying that so much more information and control is available via their rs485 bus.

So, after the novelty has worn off I find that all I really care about is being able to turn the lights on/off and heat up the spa.

UPDATE:

I ended up going with a different pool builder and different equipment. I am now going to use a Goldline Controls Pro Logic PS-8 with their AquaConnect Home Automation serial interface. The current product will allow the remote control of the pool and spa but lacks the ability to obtain the temperature. The manufacturer is telling me the temperature feature will be added most likely in July. This works out perfectly for me, as the pool is due to be completed by July 1.

Rod

Rod,

How did this work out for you? What was the cost? I am looking to convert my pool over to salt in the next month or so. I have a small residential pool with a single pump and not a lot of need for valve control. I think the full Pool Control system is probably overkill and a waste of money but what I would really like to do is monitor the Salt Chlorine Generator. I'd like to know the salt level at a minimum.

Sooo...is there any Chlorine Generator out there that has either (A) an RS232 interface that is easy to use to pull data from or (<_< a published RS485 protocol?

I can easily build a PIC control unit to talk RS485 and get the data from the unit, but need to know the protocol since RS485 is a query/response mechanism. I need to know what to send to the Generator to get it to respond.

Any help would be appreciated. Right now I am coming up empty with google searches.

PiperPilot

rrockoff said:

UPDATE:

I ended up going with a different pool builder and different equipment. I am now going to use a Goldline Controls Pro Logic PS-8 with their AquaConnect Home Automation serial interface. The current product will allow the remote control of the pool and spa but lacks the ability to obtain the temperature. The manufacturer is telling me the temperature feature will be added most likely in July. This works out perfectly for me, as the pool is due to be completed by July 1.

Rod

Click to expand...